Investor,

If TC is a problem for certain of you it stems from his having a nicely balanced ego, super-ego, and id. This means that he is unlikely to put his welfare in the hands of the unqualified.

Statistically, there are bound to be charlatans amongst us so how can a well intentioned fellow member protect himself from being turned into a fool by a predatory contributor?

The simplest and easiest way of doing so is for all honest members to put up their ideas, from time to time, in the form of pre-race selections.

To a healthy mind there is something funny about continuous after-timing. Or the new developement of saying that there is conflict in race A before the off and using that to qualify oneself for the freedom to demonstrate your abilities in race B after the winner is known.

If you can take the trouble to demonstrate the worth of your knowledge before the off I am sure both TC and myself will be fighting each other over your kind offer.

I looked at that race - long and hard - in the end I had a "Play Bet"

as you say - it was a "Match"

the bet was - Ace to win @2/1 - and forcast - Tri 1st / Ace 2nd !

Sorry - thats -"Aftertiming" - but as Gummy sez - if you have an opinion, then there is no "Fun" in watching the race - if you have no "Interest" in the result !! - However small !!

JIB - the - super ego bit - has always been my problem !

Contrarian views - always "Dominate" my thinking !!

"SAD"

Jib
This isn't about knowledge,This is about UNDERSTANDING.And i'm sorry to say that T.c Hasn't got a clue,Wether that's a puffing out of the chest or not (ectoo).On a majority of occasions the most probable winner will be left to run.It is understanding why that is the biggest problem for most.Don't get me wrong i don't achieve 80% but i do o.k.The thing i can't quite get my head round with your approach,Is you give a horse like The prince out,Which had the attributesof a winner and then you plump for a donkey like Pushkin,So inconsistent.You need the books mate.Maybe one day eh.

Trojan,

Obviously, I cannot talk about VDW and pace, but maybe you'd be interested in

paceadvantage.com

As ever, it's States based (Beyer, Quirin and all), but there are dudes discussing various ways of measuring pace via a message board.

Anyway, you may know about it already, or it may give some ideas (or add to the confusion).

T.c
Arsehole springs to mind.

quote:

---

i'm sorry to say that T.c Hasn't got a clue

---

YUP - " Funfair Wayne" - 10 days Prior to the Ayre Gold Cup !

Complete "Crap" of course !!



33/1 !!!!

Boozer,

The Ability Rating isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, on first impressions.

Epi,

Why then, if my comments are tiresome, do you continue to delve deeper and ask questions about them?

Investor,

I find it hard to understand how you could make Sister Clair and Sunbia form horses? Yes the former was up against some dire types, but that doesn’t automatically make her a form horse. Also Rhymer’s Rascal? Do you mean Rhymer’s Tower

Snow Knight,

Yes, worked on them all.

Newmarket 3:00 Somerville Tattersall Stakes (Group 3) (Colts & Geldings) (A1) (2yo)
Winner £34,800.00 7f

71 Diktatorial
1 Subpoena

Although these are the 1st two in the betting f/cast, I think it is worth noting where "all" the runners in this renewal ran their first race and at what distance. I cannot seperate the two above. Perhaps someone else may be able to, or do we have to?.

TC,

I have to admit to getting a little confused about some of your thinking. Lee came back and gave a few selections pre race. I seem to remember you then saying they proved nothing because the prices were short and anyone could have selected them. Guest has been on and posted pre race, although the price was not great the reason for the selection were given.

Now because Lee won't explain something in great detail you are shouting about the high priests coming back and ruining the thread. My question must be what do you want? You have your own high priest on this thread, and he says the form books are not necessary. Without them how would you check if Lee did given an explanation. that it bore any relation to VDW thinking?

I had the piss taken when I suggested the purpose of me putting a horse up before the race was to study it rather than back it. If you had studied it I don't think you would have been asking the question about Trilemma. The horse won a race in a slow time so what it won. It didn't have to run any faster to win. was it capable of running faster, the race before said it was. Could it hold it's own against the class of the obvious danger? I think the figures said it could before and AFTER the race, facts don't change. Is Top Speed rubbish I couldn't possibly say, I don't use his s/f. Which ones do I use, if you had shown any interest I would have pointed you to the very obvious clue I left?

You want pre race selections, you want reasons for those selections, and then you want folk to act as your unpaid researcher. Sir, you want a lot.

Investor,

Afraid I can't help either as I don't have that particular form book. Yet

Be Lucky

mtoto -

no problems with your post - you make some good points - and maybe in some areas maybe - I deserve a "smack on the wrist"

Your comments re Trilemma - are "Interesting" - and I take them on board - did it win with that much in hand ?? - worth looking at !

re - Speed figs - I missed and - still miss your clue - but I Know that many others - including "Trojan" - want to look at this aspect - in "Much more detail"

re - Pre Race Selections - I simply maintain that until a member has produced some - then in "MY eyes" - he has no "Credability" -

I "BacK" my own according to my judgement - and "NEVER" - follow a "Tipster" - from this thread or anywhere else !!

Do you think that I - put up " Funfair Wayne" as "Idle Speculation" ???

Be Lucky

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuppenycat,

Crimson Sun 300N (Danzig) should prefer the extra furlong and apparently didnt like the soft lto, certainly he wasnt knocked about.

On the average winning progeny timeform figs Danzig progeny (95) are second only to Storm Cat who is not represented here.

Lee: I have pointed out what is tiresome about the comment, not comments, mentioned. I look further into the matter because despite your poor wording there's a possibility that you are serious.

Epi,

I would have thought it obvious that everything I say is in direct relation to the part of my post that you find tiresome.

You have some front picking me up on my wording, quite often when you post I conclude that you must be pissed!

Lee
Yes,I do mean Rhymers Tower.I had put crosses through the 2 you mentioned,So i shall have a look at them again,Surely Albert the great wasn't a form horse.I would be grateful if you would put the 4 you considered none form horses then i can take a good look at them all again.

at last a small nugget of info thanks investor.


'vdw is based around numbers'

good cos I like numbers.

so we got

formfigs and prize money and improving placings/lengths and forecast.

back later.

Lee: from what I can tell you're saying that the race comments need to be taken in conjunction with something else, something that is unconnected with normal form analysis ie result expressed as place, lengths or time, ratings, trainer, jockey, sibling traits, market position, race distance, class, going, field, weight carried, horse's age and days between runs. At the moment you're right, I cant dream of a common denominator as there is nothing recorded that is not pertinent to form analysis, after all form analysis is decided by exploiting any and all information available. If, as Investor suggests, it's just a question of temperament, ie only backing a horse with all the requisites when that horse is the only such runner, one wouldn't need to dream as the written word already exists to that effect.

Thursday, September 30.

Here we go. First difference is the race chosen.

I didn't use Raff's race because it's for 2yo.
( No Juveniles, a la Charlie Anderson).

340 Goodwood.
£29K grp3 A1, 7f.

Is this a VDW selection?

COURT MASTERPIECE.

Answer N for no, Y for yes.


I think it is and it has a fair chance of winning.
My own bet would be Kheleyf, though the price may not satisfy.

Over to y'All! Have a nice day!

In Raffingora's chosen race, I'll probably back Santa Fe.

No way is it a VDW selection, imo, but I like Fallon/Stoute in valuable races.
The owners are good too.

Having said that, if Fallon winsa on Damson, forget it!

Y (IMO)