JIB,

I agree with the last line of your previous post in that it is ‘their’ method, not the ‘VDW’ method that is lousy at picking winners.

The price shouldn’t have been an issue as early in the betting there was enough 2/1 - 9/4, on the exchanges, for anyone who wanted it.

seanrua,

I think he has spent some Time on this board, one of the aliases was Chaz. Could be wrong though.

Chaz = Charlie Anderson?

All I know, Barney, is what Gummy/Marchwood wrote about him.

I believe VDW used to write in the Handicap book that they mention.

The barebone outline of a VDW-like approach will be quite good enough for me; terminal illness won't wait while chapter and verse are thrashed out, line by line.

I need a few winners here and now!
Bad temperament, I guess, but nevermind.

Nothing tomorrow as there's no class C or better on the flat.

I'll be backing 2yo maidens, which is a definite VDW no-no, I'd say.

Barney,

Marchwood was most certainly a member of this forum. His name is Gerald Simpson, and he did more than anyone else to stop people posting pre race. He used postings and ideas from another forum (VDW) to promote a news letter that he founded. He started a web site and sold these news letters to anyone who would pay. I think you will find that is one of the main reasons many will not go into very much detail on how they think VDW works. I have know idea if the site and newsletter is still running, I do hope it isn't.

Chaz is in no way connected to Marchwood or that site.

JIB,

If there was a prize for stirring you would win it hands down. I explained to TC why the idea was not to back the horse. It was just an example of how I understand and use VDW. It was meant to be used as a pre race guide and to show the horse had the same profile as others I have mentioned. I didn't want him to back it I wanted him to take the race apart then look at Grey Swallow in the Irish Derby. Grey Swallow was mentioned because someone thought North Light was a VDW certainty.

Yes you put up lists of horses to follow. Do you explain how these horses are selected, if you do good for you. Many seem just to follow your lists, but do they sit down and try to work out why they are on the list? Do they try to find their own lists and logical reasons to put horse in them?

I don't think so judging by the response when Max gave them a list. The criteria to get on his list was fairly simple, instead of working it out there was posting after posting asking why this horse? That's not pooling knowledge that's spoon feeding it.

You sir are a small minded trouble maker. You try to make out the original members of this thread think they are superior and look down on the rest of the forum. That is complete rubbish, many of them/us have helped others in many ways. TC has just spent hours compiling stats on the c/ratings, forecasts, etc. This has already been done by others and the results of many combinations are readily available. To get these stats the only thing one had to do was show a real interest in VDW, and a little hard work.

The likes of Marchwood stop this thread returning to anything like its past glory. Then the attitude of you, TC, and JohnD, PLUS THAT FACT IT IS NOW OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, MAKE SURE IT NEVER WILL.

I expect some smart arse answer, your good at them. Even the cleverest answer can't hid the fact that this site is poorer for the lose of these contributors and their knowledge.

Finally, why if this thread is so full of utter rubbish why continue with it? Why not start your own thread in the forum, then the trouble makers can't interfere?

Mtoto,

I may be small minded, but thats probably because of the high value I place on what I must make volume for in my mind.

You certainly know how to wring the last drop from your before the off 8/1 winner. but I m sure your enviously broad mind will have heard the expression that starts 'one swallow....'

I will repeat either from apathy (a bit strange for such a bookielashing method), incompetence (the method after 700 pages here still remains meaningless), or fear (afterall if you ve set yourself up as a VDW shaman you dont want to make a cock up of a straightforward affair like todays 305G), you old fellows all managed to slip out the backdoor before anyone collared an opinion.

If you wish to read my list, (I'm afraid Max's is a bit hazy in my memory now), just join the rest of the forum . Who knows you might learn something?

You have been announcing the death of this thread now since 2001 but as far as I can assuage the only forum that curled its toes up was the one you, and the other optimistic fellows of your cabal mention, started last year. As you now uncomfortly understand "Great Birnham Wood Came to Dunsinane."

I am afraid if you wish to fulfil your prophecies you ll now probably have to pay a trip to the Mosque of Al Aqsa!

JIB,

Agreed one swallow doesn't make a summer. If you took the trouble to look back at the other winning pre race selections you would find they ALL have the same profile. As you have no interest in looking back, why would you? If you did you may have to admit it isn't one swallow making a summer. Hugs Dancer was put up for the Chester cup 2 years ago, same profile. Some swallow some summer. There are many more, but I can't mention them because TC wouldn't like it. Like it or not they are there.

I don't understand why you think the other forum is dead, far from it. I came back because of the nonsense being spouted on the 'revived' thread. When I left there were more than a few newcomers to the forum who stated their reason for joining was this thread. Where are they? Perhaps they didn't bother because of the reception they would have meet. I don't know, all I do know is they have never posted. Those that have, have been greeted with ridicule if they don't agree with the mighty JIB and company.

This so called straight forward race 3:05 at Goodwood, (so some of the slower contributors know which race I'm talking about) if it was so straight forward, and you had eliminated 2 runners one of which was a short priced favourite. Why didn't you put forward away of making money from it? Maybe it wasn't that straight forward. I looked at the race and nothing took my attention. In saying that there was a horse with the right profile, but I don't use the method as a system. It didn't ring right and I left it. You can have 2 horses from your donkey list and reject the race and that is ok. Because I rejected the race I'm incompetent, the method doesn't work. Grow up!!

Think you will find the only time I mentioned the death of this thread is when the senseless abuse started. You didn't answer the question, why not start your own thread? Why build on 700 pages of rubbish? Is it because if you did you would have no reason to post on this one? Start your own thread and you would have to show the world what a boorish buffoon you are. If/when this thread took off you would not be able to resist trying to spoil it.

Consistent horse don't win, fool.

So amongst the insults you are telling me there was no c/f horse in the 305G?

Presumanbly there were no top 3 on ability and it must habve been vv foolish of me to mention it because there were no top3 on consistency either?

Come Mtoto, you cant make up the rules as you go along.

The winner of the 305G was a VDW no hoper. You know it, I know it, as do more than a few others. The difference being you will not admit it nor admit that your precious system is little better than mumbo jumbo.

I suppose you think punters should be stupid, greedy people who will swalloow anyold claptrap if its dressed up in a Colin Davis way. It must be frustrating that there are people, getting access to these fora, who point out the emperor is walking about bare-arsed.

Lee
If your going to have a pop at me,Or tell me i messed up (not the first time and it won't be the last ) Then i would appreciate it if you would direct the post at me Rather than through a posting to somebody else.And while were on the subject,Did you feel the same thing about In discussion at stratford.

Rab
Placing is important, and at the heart of VDW's method, a point he emphasised many times and spelled out in some detail in 'Racing In My System'.
At all levels too, as he showed in his Quest For Fame example, where he not only showed how he selected the winner, but also how he rejected the also rans. Similarly in his Pegwell Bay example.
In the hope of preventing Epi having a coronary, I should also point out Sulamani, who earlier this season was highlighted on this thread, before the race, as being unlikely to win a particular race when favoured to do so, duly lost, but was eventually placed to win.
Understanding the placing of horses is a vital part of understanding VDW, and we can all learn a great deal from this aspect. Even Jib, for all his disbelief, has taken that on board, though I would suggest he lacks the sophistication of the master.

Jib
VDW didn't claim to pick the winner of every race, indeed he pointed out that most races were best avoided.
The 3.05G yesterday was one of those races, a fact only emphasised by the winner and the second.
On all known form, the result shows a number of class horses disappointed, not an unusual occurence, but hardly the grounds for ditching the whole approach.

Personally, as one endeavouring to understand, I can accept that the best of horses and the best of systems can fail inexplicably.

Perfection is probably impossible, but we can strive to make the best of things, imo.

Yesterday, most known ratings predicted a better effort from Salselon and Muqbil; post-mortems can be useful, but I won't dwell. I'll move on.
No need to reject a method over just one bad result.

Here's something the experts may help me with, if they wish;
Barney said this the other day:


"Barney
Vanman
Member

posted September 11, 2004 02:55 PM

Doyen is fairly safe lay, you dont back nowt coming back in trip, unless its coming back from better horses to its optimum. "

I'm a bit confused about this.
Yesterday my selection flopped, but the winner was Alkaadhem.

The RP analysis says:

" A good winner over course and distance in the spring, he was suited by the return to 10f after trying further on his most recent start,"

Perrsonally, I quite like CD as a positive factor, but I think this idea has been pooh-poohed earlier somewhere on this thread.

Can anyone clarify? Btw, I realise that Alkie wasn't a VDW selection, anyway.

It's just the bit about, "don't back nowt coming back in trip".

The previous race was a £17.4K A listed; yesterday's race was a £29K A1 Grp3.

Very confusing for a mug-punter like me.

JD, Sean,

My last couple of posts or so have been v much aimed at Mtoto and the other couple of 'vdw is a secret goldmine' merchants and who are at work to stop pre-race discussion or the free exchange of information.

It only took that eternal groveller Grundy a few hours to make the following post:

"mtoto, good to see your posts well done with picking azamour, which speed figures do you prefer, stopwatch, split second, i have been trying to contact you via email, do you have new email address thanks, grundy"


This mentality of hiving off goodies for restricted consumption and the soon to be revived c/f supremacists (the Haydock Hornet doesnt have the guts to start on his ownbut is almost peeing himself with excitement) should not be allowed a painless entry. And whilst vdwology is not without its benefits I merely wished to point out that it has its frailties too.

JIB,

just go!

Set up a "JIB thinks VDW is rubbish Thread", post all your horses and why they will win over there.

I think Gummy is starting to realise what your true intentions are, about time he banned you again from this thread, in my opinion.

PS.

no put aways today? or has that little bonfire been pissed on.

Hi JID,
I know nothing of the personalities on this thread, and there's very little chance of my showing any interest in anything but horseracing.

The frailities of "ologies", I'm well aware of.

You should regard me as a mercenary raider; I'm here bc it's part of the Gummy Forum, which I like a lot, and, bc I want to learn.

Aside from VDW, I'm very interested in your "Donkeys", as I'm a great follower of certain trainers.

May I just add that this is a very dangerous ploy which can be exremely costly if, like me, you get it wrong quite often!

Number crunchers and data freaks would be better suited to a structured approach as outlined by Gummy/ Marchwood/Charley Anderson.

A few simple rules which msy help make sense of the madness that is horseracing. It is unlikely that success will be guaranteed, of course.

I too was a miner and got ****ed up; now I have no choice but to gamble and die.
It's great! I'm not complaining.

Bought a little turban to go with your mind reading act?

Seanrua,

There are two ends to that stick you have grabbed the wrong end.

Barny,

I refer you to:

yellow card

MY POINT EXACTLY.

Gummy was hoodwinked enough to be taken in by your over verbose tripe and hot air, then eventually blamed it all on me at one time.

The light Massa... the LIght....

Barney,

I hardly think a request to remove our argument to the off topic section is a sign that Gummy would be stupid enough to be 'hoodwinked' by 'verbose tripe' and 'hot air'

As I suspect you have been swalloing Dutch courage pills and powders, I shall return later and look for your considerations on the Off Topic section.

Seanrua
Tregonning knew what he was doing with Alkaadhem,Make no mistake about that.I don't know if there a gambling stable but i feel the money was down.

Just another thing to think about,Vdw gave us consistency ratings didn't he.The horses form figures were 043,But if we take the form figures and juggle them about Alkaadhem was actually 113 at goodwood,Worth thinking about.

Hi Seanrua

I have noticed a couple of lines in your recent posts that have concerned me.

"terminal illness won't wait while chapter and verse are thrashed out, line by line".

and

"I too was a miner and got ****ed up; now I have no choice but to gamble and die.
It's great! I'm not complaining."

Are you poorly? (Sorry if I have missed an earlier conversation).

BlackCat