Boring

The continual sniping on this thread is boring. B-O-R-I-N-G !

Every positive point made is worthwhile and is worthy of consideration by like-minded individuals (IMO). Of course, not everyone is like-minded, and whereas there is a place for lively debate, and disagreement, this thread sure does bring out the arse in people.

Just because a point made doesn't fit in with how you (that is you - the person reading this) see things, should not give rise to the recurring sniping and animosity that goes on.

So I have a suggestion.

Start two (or more) new threads.

One for the likes of Snow Knight, Investor, Mtoto, Guest, etc., who enjoy looking at the old examples and consider them to be worthwhile.

One for JIB, TC, Nessie, Seanrua, etc., who would rather look at today’s racing and apply other principles and ideas, as well as looking at whether VDW methodology stacks up in the current markets.

(BTW, sorry if I’ve put anyone in the wrong camp – example purposes only). Oh, and some may be happy wandering in and out of both… me for example, (and Epi and Johnd perhaps).

And perhaps other threads from time to time could look at specific races where both meet briefly – but not long enough to piss each other off!!!

Anyway, I thought I’d put this up. Of course you may disagree

BlackCat

I'm going to regret this but

the reason for the sniping is
1. In most cases a reasonale straight question is not answered.
2. very few pre race selections prove the point.

I REALLY want to learn vdw. I think it is fasinating and based on good principles but I for one am stumped because I cant progress without being stonewalled in some way.

ps any chance of an answer to

1. what is the common demoniator
2. which or what forecast is to be used and why.

Nessie
I have given as much as i can,There is plenty to get your head round,You don't have to use the examples that were given if you don't feel the need,I got the basics by checking out horses that were put on this thread,Why not start by looking at Lee's selections

Lochbuie
byron
Darasim
Top Dirham
Mephisto
Double Vodka

You can also get the form for Roushayd,Billet,Merce Cunningham,Pegwell Bay,Nomadic Way to name a few of the r/p Website.Start by looking at these and helping yourself a little bit.And to be quite blunt,Youv'e got more chance of plaiting piss than anybody giving you the outright information that you require.I'm sorry if that sounds harsh,But it's the truth.

quote:

---

Originally posted by investor:
Youv'e got more chance of plaiting piss than anybody giving you the outright information that you require.I'm sorry if that sounds harsh,But it's the truth.

---

investor , don't get me wrong as im not having a dig but if that's the case then what's the point of the v.d.w forum , from my point of view the whole point of a forum like this is to exchange views , ideas etc and maybe along the way help those that are less experienced or less knowledgable than others.

if no one is prepared to help anybody then im afraid that the thread is a complete waste of time.

BC,

The trouble is just as a man cannot serve two masters neither can there be two VDW theory threads.

As Tan has pointed out it exists to exchange views, if at times those views cannot be reconciled the blame lies with the nature of the animal under discussion as much as it is with those that are trying to tame it.

As you posted on another thread if you try to shove a cat down a toilet you are likely to get scratched!

tannisworld. that is my point exaclty. I ask for help and I am just told to go elsewhere.
over and over again I am told look in the form.


pupil "can you help me find the capital of england"
teacher"look in the atlas"
pupil" where abouts"
teacher"europe"
pupil"found europe but cant find england"
teacher"look in the atlas"


"theres a hole in my bucket dear lisa dear lisa."

investor. believe me I have looked and looked. I cant see anything that ties everything together. you can find fault in each. if they are true vdw selections then the method is not consitent.

ps plating piss is easier! (why are you so secretive?. and how do you discuss vdw with others?)

The 315N is a good example of how difficult it is to second guess a trainers intentions. Only 5 runners and big big place money!

Nessie
I have tried to help,And i'm sick of going round in circles,I don't profess to be the most knowledable on the subject.I still get form horses wrong,There are patterns nessie but you have to look at form totally different to the way in which most look at it.

I don't discuss vdw with anybody,I only have a chunter to my wife now and again but that's about it.

Tannisworld
You can have a pop if you want mate,But in answer to your question,There are a lot of people who have put time into studying the methods,And they will share ere finngs with like minded people.The thing with this thread is,That there is so much negativity with the methods,What's the point in trying to give anything.Even T.c doesn't think the methods work and he kept the bloody thread going,Iv'e offered Literature and form books,Even to the extent of sending them all the way to f.....g Brazil.With the intention of jib working the methods out then they could have been shared with the rest of you,Don't think iv'e not tried to help,Because i have.Maybe not in the way that eveybody wants,But i'm not about to put all the hard work i personally have put into these methods on an open forum.I know what everybody thinks..Oh holier than thou and all that it really isn't like that.I tried and i failed so i'll let them carry on in tre own merry way.

Investor.

It is very difficult to look at form in an unconventional manner for most, including myself. This is the reason why I had to compromise years ago and decide to stick to two particular areas.

The races that you have suggested that are on the RP site have been studied by myself for a number of years, and nothing to date has been uncovered, and I doubt now if it ever will, probably due to the woods and the trees syndrome.

going back a few years raceform printed jock binghams first letter, he invited readers to correspond with him, at the time, just out of interest did any members write to jock, or attend any seminar meetings..any one got any copies of gr taylors,pack up betting if you aint getting it right; mg kent follow up letters..form and class evaluation

Raff
I'm a little suprised at your last post.

Investor.

I can understand why you have said what you did, but "not one of us knows it all", no shame in saying that, although some would not admit it. As I have said I decided to concentrate on two particular areas where I know that I will always make a profit.

I still study the old examples on the RP site, when time allows, I enjoy it until the eyes start to go after a few hours. This is probably due to old age, or it could be lack of sleep over two or three nights due to studying.

investor.trouble is im tired of going round in cirlces to.

i have also put in a lot of time and effort but unless i see it for my self (which i dont) then I wont get help from those who already know.


not asking anymore sorry to have bothered you.

Nessie.

Most of us know what you are saying, but we keep trying eh.

I hate to think how much paper I have thrown out over the years, oohhh the waste, the waste.

Raff
Of course there's no shame in saying were wrong,I have said that i am not the most knowledgable on the subject and i for one don't want to lead people up the garden path.It has been seen time and time again where interpretations differ,And yes it is easy to use hindsitis,But there are patterns that are too many to be a coincidence and this is what i base my knowledge of the subject around.I may be wrong or i may be right,Like you say nobody will ever really know.

Hi Investor,

I know you said you don't discuss VDW with anyone except, perhaps, your wife, but I'm wondering about these patterns you can see.

Can you tell us whether they are visible after just a few minutes of race study, or, does it take hours, days, years before they become clear?

In particular, I'm asking in connection with today's racing, as nobody, except Nessie responded to my simple question.

If, it is such a time -consuming complexity, that a straight yes or no is impossible before the race, could you at least tell me whether I was looking at the right race ( in your opinion as someone who has read the formbooks - which, of course, I haven't (yet))?

Thank you for your help on this small matter.

Come on now Investor
Email these gentlemen and tell them about these patterns

Tell me as well
And if its computable Ill tell you if youve got something

This message has been edited. Last edited by: boozer,

Gosden at Newmarket

505N unraced Diesis filly Alhaadh makes her debut.

B. 8th March. First foal. The dam, Wishah (Red Ransom),was a quite useful 2yo 7f winner at 2 years on her only start.The 2nd Dam, Ninja Gold (Nijinski), is an unraced daughter of a Group winning Australian sprinter.

Owned by Hamdan Al-Maktoum.

Heres what Gosden said to Steve Taplin at the beginning of the season:

"She's just arrived from Dubai and is a strong, nice-looking filly who seems to have the body to make a 2yo."

DIESIS 6f 12% (7-58); good 13%

J Gosden/R Hills on fto 2yo:

9/40 SR = 22,50% 20/40 Placed PSR = 50,00% LSP = +7,19Pts ROI = 17,98%.

RP fc 8/1

Cheers, JIB!

He's a good man at Nmkt and you've done your homework.

I guess Investor and the lads have gone down the pub (it's Friday night here), though having read some old posts, it seems that blanking unwelcome intruders is a regular procedure for those whose gaze is fixed firmly on the patterns.

You've been around a while; what happened to Max? I read about 5 pages and then a sudden end.