investor,

I could not back ZEE ZEE TOP because of Aldora and Chorist.

I backed Songlark and Funfair this afternoon and There maybe Trouble Ahead this evening.

Barney
I agree with Zee Zee Top although i thought the horse was the most likely winner songlark????Funfair,Never even looked at the race nor the one tonight but i can understand your'e logic and well done, even though you you shouldn't have disregarded MAGISTRETTI/DUNHILL STAR.

Barney
nobody can say you didn't name that one before the event,Christ knows how you came to the conclusion you did but TROUBLE AHEAD 8/1 well done mate.

One major problem with this thread is the parasitic nature of some members, who post any constructive contributions they may have on private fora, and use Gummys' thread to stifle orignal thought such as Nessies', yet still hope to gain advantage from any innovation that may improve their own betting.
It also merits attention that disciples of the 'Guest Approach' have yet to provide

Johnd
i totally agree hence my comments to jib.

JohnD,

Do you have anybody in mind when posting your comments on people who post on other forums stifling original thought such as Nessie's?

As far as I can see, none of the people I know who post on other forums have tried in any way to stifle original thought from Nessie. In fact the oppsite, their posts have been encouraging. The stifling posts have come from the usual stirrers who offer nothing at all, let alone original thought!

Addendum to previous post:
Disciples of the 'Guest Method' have yet to provide substantive proof of its efficacy, and those who perform cartwheels on here, after their occasional good fortune, only serve to cast severe doubt on their overall performance.

( I have much more to say, but am back to posting through the T.V. at the moment, hence missing the 30 mins deadline for the above edit).

As you only disagree with one small part of my post, I will assume the rest of it to be fact.

JohnD,

I have substantive proof, it's in my bank account

However, the only way to really satisfy oneself as to if the approach works is to study the methods and form your own conclusions, a course of action that most of the knockers on here are unwilling to take.

I think you may be confusing those who want proof with those who want a free meal ticket without undertaking any of the research. In other words, the 'just post me the results of your hard work in actual bets' brigade

I congratulate you upon your success, part of which, no doubt, has been due to informatiion gleaned from this thread. And your contribution in return has been ??????

Investor

Barneys post was 9.25pm the race was run at 8pm

Beverley NR from last Saturday

The first of the non runners from the above race won yesterday at 16/1 - hope some of you were on.

To save going back through the thread the others
are:

My American Beauty
Beyond the Clouds
Dizzy in the Head

JohnD,

My contribution to any success I might have acheived with VDW's methodology revolves around in excess of a thousand hours with old form books and costs of several hundred pounds to acquire said form books and associated items from Newspaper library etc. All that and I'm not even finished yet!, I have still have much to do and learn. This is coupled with the cost of experience gained in 20 odd years of serious racing study, including several years on the full time circuit.

I have openly ackowledged the generous contribution that Guest has made in furthering that knowledge and I'm happy to do so.

One day John, and that day will surely come, you will decide for yourself that you want to benchmark your understanding of VDW methods against his selections, instead of burying your head in the sand and refusing to undertake the exercise. When that day happens then I sincerely hope that you find somebody that is as generous with their time and help.

Once you undertake a full study and come back to me and can say hand on heart, I've completed the exercise and my understanding resolves all those selections then believe me, I will take your comments far more seriously than I do now.

As to my contributions to this forum (or lack thereof), I will leave that to the views and opinions of those I have a measure of respect for.

Graham Hepburn,

I am still looking for a 82/83 Chaseform annual so if you can help me out in any way I will be very grateful.

Your kind words about the football were noted and thank you. Passions were really running high and violence kicked off in the crowd just 20 yards from I was standing. Not pretty and I`m ashamed to say 20 yrs ago I`d have been in the thick of it. Thankfully, I`ve grown up.

For any Lincoln fans out there, well done. I know a little about football having played at a reasonable standard and I have never seen a stronger more organised defence. It was like watching 11 Tony Adams, every ball for the whole 90 minutes was battled for. It was as if there life depended on it.

If all the horses I backed had the same grit and DETERMINATION I`d be a wealthy man.

There is a peculiar idea that some posters on this thread ask for pre-off selections as a species of "free loading". If the nature of this free loading is that the reader will back selections posted to their advantage, this implies that those requesting the tips 1. have faith in those of whom they make such requests 2. are incapable of selecting any winning/placing horses themselves and 3. are unaware that there are other fora on this board that provide selections which consistantly turn a profit. Personally I find the idea that there are members of the board who meet these three conditions ridiculous, so I throw out that interpretation of free loading, without this interpretation there becomes no difference between posting before or after the race other than the very important distinction that a pre-race selection can be demonstrated to have been selected, a post-race selction is a matter of trust. By extention we can say that those who post after the event have not demonstrated that they can be trusted and accordingly any pronouncements of a theoretical nature that they make concerning the method have no especial weight. Recently I used a simple arguement to show Fulham that his implementation of the method is not VDW's and in doing so I pointed out to him a feature of his procedure that clearly needs work, this is helpful and constructive posting yet Fulham's reply was that I have not read enough to express an opinion worthy of attention. The fact is that I have read the sentence about not allowing any element of a gamble to creep in, which is sufficient for the proof I used, if "free loading" is taken to mean deriving the fruits of the study of others in interpreting the works one could hardly wish for a clearer demonstration of the inability of at least one of those who has done the reading to apply what is read. The fact is that this thread has been stuck for a long time because so much is considered to be privilaged information, I would like to have it clearly stated by the membership whether this thread is going to continue as a competition as to who is most versed in the literature or if it's going to get round to discussing things sensibly.

I've had a look at your posts from the 10th and a couple more but I cant find any general discussion about your point about the Beverley non-runners. As most of your 'recent posts' are untitled it might be tiresome to undertake a search, have you gone into the question at some point on a dedicated thread?

Epiglotis

You may well be right about free-loading, but it was interesting to see the "interest" in Max's selections on another thread when he seemed to be on a profitable run a few weeks ago.

"interesting" it may have been but I found it quite embarassing. The sad part is that Max has run two extended threads detailing his methods yet his followers still apparently cant spit without him to do everything for them. Totally pathetic and illustrative of the least successful side of this kind of board in my opinion.

Fulham made reference several days ago on one of the other VDW thread`s that a poster had prepared a CD of all Guest`s posts.

Would the said poster be prepared to e mail me ?

I would be most grateful.

Thanks,