John,

At a guess I would say that 97 is the Post Mark attained in the race, and C is the class of race. Could be wrong though!

I believe that Chaz is right,This is quite similar to how Max evaluates form,And it most certainly works.

Gringo
What kind of poxy answer is that,Always evading a question, You want to understand vdw the same as we all do on this thread so why don't you stop pretending.

I have ad enuff
Will have to log off
Aching ribs

Investor,
Some good posts from yourself of late, with reference to your post regarding lord protector, I can see where you are coming from on a VDW point of view with regard to consistent runs yes the runs were consistent, on those three particular dates but I am afraid like Mtoto I cannot see how he was out classed on the 10th of August run as he came 9th and was beaten even by Torrid Kentavr who is certainly not any classier than LP VDW wise ! It was a bad run in my view but there you go !!!
Post from Guest 11th April 10.23 am
“LP was 3rd rated on speed/merit but you won't find his attributes in the last 3 runs. He was found via a completely different method to the consistency approach.”

Consistent form+ability+capability+probability+hard work=winners

He did not have consistent form in my view !!!
You also say “vdw also mentioned the fact that the perms were endless”

I would be interested in your views on this statement if you wish please email me on

mimas80@hotmail.com

may 23rd goodwood 7 gd c class 11 2nd btn hd @ 6/1

june 7th goodwood 7 gs c class 10 2nd btn 2 1/2 lngths @ 5/2

next 2 races whacked up in class

22nd july ayr 7 gd c class 8 5th btn 2 1/4 lgs @ 2/1

10th aug newm 7 b class 19 outclassed?????????

20th sept ayr 6 gd b class 14 distance wrong

18th oct newm 7 gd c class 9 winner @ 20/1

Cheers Mimas

[This message was edited by mimas on May 13, 2003 at 07:57 PM.]

BOOZER

The best race with the best winner.
Best Mate spells it out.

Betting Forecast: 6/4 Best Mate, 4/1 Beef Or Salmon, 7/1 Hussard Collonges, 9/1 Commanche Court,
12/1 See More Business, Valley Henry, 14/1 Keen Leader, 16/1 Behrajan, Chives,
20/1 Marlborough, 25/1 Colonel Braxton, Truckers Tavern,
33/1 First Gold, Harbour Pilot, 40/1 You're Agoodun, 200/1 Modulor.


Spotlight Best Mate 10
Postmark Best Mate
Topspeed Best Mate *
Postdata Behrajan 2
Lambourn Best Mate *
The North Hussard Collonges 1
The Times Commanche Court 2
Telegraph Best Mate
The Guardian Best Mate
Independent Behrajan *
Daily Mail Best Mate
The Express Best Mate
Daily Mirror Best Mate
The Sun Commanche Court *
The Star Best Mate



CHELTENHAM, 13 Mar 2003, 3:15, Tote Cheltenham Gold Cup Chase Showcase Race (Class A) Grade 1 (5yo+),Winner £203,000.00,(3m2f110y)3m2½f GOOD, 16 Runners

Best Mate, ........................................................................................Form =(3**) Av = 97.7k, Ab = 50.9k
100% 183A 24f 1/1 Sft Kem 87K (77 days) (UP in dist, + WIN) Same class A, No improv
37% 185A 20f 1/8 GS Hun 32K (110 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
203% 186A 26f 1/1 Gd Chl 174K (364 days)(g)(c) ** DIST + WIN **
.................................. (100%)
Marlborough, ........................................................................................Form =(21) Av = 62.7k, Ab = 34.3k
43% 170A 24f Pl/31 Gd Nby 41K (33 days)(g) (UP in dist, lengths) Same class A, BUT chk figures
98% 180A 24f 2/1 Sft Kem 87K (77 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
62% 165A 26f 9/18 GS Nby 60K (103 days) (** DIST lengths)
.................................. (59%)
Harbour Pilot, ........................................................................................Form =(9**) Av = 62k, Ab = 27.3k
70% 168x 24f 3/4 Sft Leo 67K (32 days) (UP in dist, placed ?) UP in class from 67K IMPROVING ***
62% 168x 24f 3/6 Hy Leo 59K (75 days) (UP in dist, placed ?)
61% 164A 26f 3/2 GS Nby 60K (103 days) (** DIST PLACED)
.................................. (56%)
Beef Or Salmon, ........................................................................................Form =(3**) Av = 47k, Ab = 33.8k
72% 172x 24f 1/4 Sft Leo 67K (32 days) (UP in dist, + WIN) UP in class from 67K IMPROVING ***
62% 169x 24f 1/6 Hy Leo 59K (75 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
14% 156x 16f 1/4 Sft Cor 15K (88 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
.................................. (43%)
Colonel Braxton, ........................................................................................Form =(5**) Av = 45.3k, Ab = 20.8k
70% 168x 24f 2/4 Sft Leo 67K (32 days) (UP in dist, placed ?) UP in class from 67K, CHK for improv
10% 160x 17f 1/2 Sft Fai 10K (53 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
61% 166x 24f 2/6 Hy Leo 59K (75 days) (UP in dist, placed ?)
.................................. (41%)
Hussard Collonges, ........................................................................................Form =(9**) Av = 41k, Ab = 26.3k
38% 178A 24f 2/2 GS Hay 34K (54 days) (UP in dist, PLACED) Same class A, BUT chk figures
65% 173A 26f 5/5 GS Nby 60K (103 days) (** DIST lengths)
29% 164A 25f 2/2 GS Wet 29K (131 days) (Chk Dist PLACED)
.................................. (38%)
Chives, ........................................................................................Form =(6**) Av = 38k, Ab = 4k
42% 166A 24f 2/2 Gd Nby 41K (33 days)(g) (UP in dist, PLACED) Same class A, BUT chk figures
46% 174A 29f 2/7 Hy Chp 43K (76 days) (Down in dist PLACED)
30% 161A 24f 2/1 Sft Hay 30K (116 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
.................................. (34%)
Keen Leader, ........................................................................................Form =(7**) Av = 42.7k, Ab = 11.1k
64% 127A 24f 5/40 Gd Chl 81K (1 days)(g)(c) (UP in dist, lengths) Same class A IMPROVING ***
28% 167A 24f 1/dist GS Asc 27K (26 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
20% 164A 25f 1/24 GS Wet 20K (40 days) (Chk Dist + WIN)
.................................. (32%)
First Gold, ........................................................................................Form =(13**) Av = 39k, Ab = 79k
24% 172A 25f 3/10 GS Wcn 23K (26 days) (Chk Dist PLACED) Same class A, BUT chk figures
45% 122x 24f 7/50 Hy Leo 59K (75 days) (UP in dist, lengths)
36% 165x 20f 3/4 Hy Pun 35K (95 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
.................................. (30%)
See More Business, ........................................................................................Form =(4**) Av = 33k, Ab = 27.8k
26% 181A 25f 1/9 GS Wcn 23K (26 days) (Chk Dist + WIN) Same class A, No improv
25% 176A 26f 1/7 Sft Chp 23K (96 days) ** DIST + WIN **
52% 157x 24f 2/5 Sft Dro 53K (124 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
.................................. (30%)
Behrajan, ........................................................................................Form =(8**) Av = 35k, Ab = 33k
56% 183A 25f 1/14 GS Chl 49K (47 days)(c) (Chk Dist + WIN) Same class A IMPROVING ***
35% 180A 24f 1/nk Sft Asc 31K (82 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
0% 01x 24f 6/57 Sft Nav 25K (116 days) (UP in dist, lengths)
.................................. (26%)
Truckers Tavern, ........................................................................................Form =(14**) Av = 35.3k, Ab = 13.2k
42% 166A 24f 3/9 Gd Nby 41K (33 days)(g) (UP in dist, PLACED) Same class A IMPROVING ***
35% 166A 24f 1/2 GS Hay 34K (54 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
0% 01A 24f Pl/31 Sft Asc 31K (82 days) (UP in dist, lengths)
.................................. (22%)
You're Agoodun, ........................................................................................Form =(13**) Av = 34k, Ab = 9.5k
64% 164A 28f 2/¾L Gd Hay 63K (12 days)(g) (Down in dist PLACED) Same class A, CHK for improv
0% 01B 24f Pl/68 Hy San 29K (40 days) (UP in dist, lengths)
9% 156B 24f 1/4 GS Asc 10K (131 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
.................................. (21%)
Valley Henry, ........................................................................................Form =(6**) Av = 33.3k, Ab = 18.8k
45% 176A 24f 1/2 Gd Nby 41K (33 days)(g) (UP in dist, + WIN) Same class A, CHK for improv
0% 01A 25f 4/70 GS Chl 49K (47 days)(c) (Chk Dist lengths)
10% 172B 24f 1/4 GS San 10K (97 days) (UP in dist, + WIN)
.................................. (15%)
Commanche Court, ........................................................................................Form =(14**) Av = 31k, Ab = 12k
12% 167x 20f 1/½L Sft Nav 12K (25 days) (UP in dist, + WIN) UP in class from 12K, BUT chk figures
15% 157x 16f 3/13 Hy Pun 16K (39 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
0% 01x 29f Pl/25 /Y Fai 65K (346 days) (Down in dist lengths)
.................................. (7%)
Modulor, ........................................................................................Form =(19) Av = 5.7k, Ab = 6.5k
0% 01x 17f 6/32 Sft Cag 4K (61 days) (UP in dist, lengths) UP in class from 4K, CHK for improv
0% 01x 18f Pl/4 Sft Cag 9K (65 days) (UP in dist, lengths)
0% 01x 18f 3/37 8H Cag 4K (70 days) (UP in dist, PLACED)
.................................. (0%)

Gringo
You haven't got a serious bone in your'e body,All you come back with is these stupid comments like iv'e said if you weren't interested in the thread then you would let it run it's course and keep well away.But no the thread is like a magnet it keeps pulling you back,Good fun really looking at your'e theatrical posts and them sub headings,Always good for a giggle.

Like I said I'm fed up with the rowing.No more from me.

John,

The only reason that I spotted the Post Mark thingy was because I think I’ve seen it used on the board somewhere else. Max I think did something similar on his form thread.

My opinion of Nessies tables, if I’m right about Posmark/Class, is that you could say that he’s simplified the parts of the equation that VDW felt were most important namely class/form. He’s using prize money as a measure class, and Post Mark as a measure of form, and so it will give the user a good idea of which horse has the best recent form. I’m not sure about multiplying the two together though.

The thing is there are loads of different ways one can arrive at the same conclusion. So, although it wouldn’t be for me, there is some logic in what he’s doing.

Nessie,

I hope you persevere with this thread. Don't let the childish behaviour of the few put you off. I can only speak for myself, I haven't commented on your tables as I was trying to work them out first. I wouldn't be surprised if others were trying to do the same.

This is a good thread, and please don't take any notice what people say about ego's and not wanting to help each other. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes, and many contributors help each other. They don't post all their thoughts on a public forum for obvious reasons. I think enough is posted to help anyone who is serious about VDW.

You obviously put in the work, and have put a lot of thought into it. I used to work from ratings but this board has shown me they can only take you so far.

There a few questions I would like to ask, but I will wait until you have had time to recover. I have many of the same problems with the typing (and writing).

Be lucky

Chaz, thanks!

Mimas
you have mail.

Hi Everyone,
Work committments have kept me away from the thread and my study of the old examples of late but have a couple of questions of a minor nature to ask.
Determined,
Did you get the form book you were after? I'm missing 80/81 Chaseform (if anyone has a spare one please let me know)and was going to place a wanted ad in Smartsig and would be happy to add yours to the list.Good luck with S****horpe tonight by the way.
Fulham,
Noted you have come in for unwarrented stick again and responded by rising above it by continuing to help and encourage others. Well done - as Determined says " a true gentleman"
By the way if your uncle doesn't go the whole hog with a horse are you aware that David Lyons runs a few syndicates using trainers in different parts of the country?

Cheers

Graham

Graham

Thanks.

Yes, I am aware of David Lyons's syndicates and have directed my uncle's attention to his syndicate web-site as well as sending him a copy of a rather impressive video from Peter Harris Racing and a copy of a "warts and all" article on ownership that Guy Ward, the Mathematician, published recently. (Guy owned Air of Esteem for a year and his itemised account shows the cost was over £16,000, not offset by any prize money.Ironically, soon after he sold the horse and it was moved to a better trainer, it won twice.)

We are all off for a few days holiday over the Whitsun week, and no doubt after that I'll know whether my uncle wants to proceed, and if so in what form. I still like the idea of a 2yo named VDW!

I hope the weather is kind to you and yours Fulham.