If you think I am wrong about the effect of the private forum, perhaps you would answer just one question, with the whole truth and nothing else added?
In the past few weeks, the roll-call on the phantom forum has increased from 4/5 to 20. ( Fulham's figures, not mine).
How did 15 members suddenly find out about this forum, and how to contact it? Thought transference?
I defy you to answer that honestly, without compromising some of those members.
If you do, we will then see who is destroying this thread.

Johnd

For the avoidance of all doubt, I personally know only of the following extant net activities (apart, of course, from private emails) re VDW. I list them in what I think is the chronological order of their establishment:

1) the VDW Methodology Group, which I think at one stage had about 80 members, but is currently showing 61. In essence, it is like Gummy's board - in individual proprietorship and one applied for membership. The site still exists, but membership has been closed for ? a year, and the Group is essentially moribund. There have only been four posts in 2003, the latest 27 April;

2) the VDW Analysis group, which I think never had a double figure membership, and currently shows 7. Established by two members of the Methodology Group board, and membership by invitation only, with the agreement of all existing members. Like the Methodology Group, still extant, but postings currently suspended - see (5) below. Latest was on 23 June 2003;

3) the VDW thread on the Racing Systems UK board, a board which, I think, is genuinely public in that although one can be banned, acceptance as a member is automatic. Had a brief and lively existence, but has long (I think well over a year) been moribund;

4) the VDW thread here. Like (1) (and (5)), a board in individual proprietorship, and applications for membership not automatically approved. Extant, reasonably active but ? losing posters;

5) the VDW Methods board. Like (1) and (4), a board in individual proprietorship, and membership on recommendation of an existing member and subject to approval by proprietor. Currently 26 members. Extant, and reasonably active: 646 posts in last month (none irrelevant, obstructive or abusive.). (Currently, members of the VDW Analysis Group post material that would otherwise have been held in that forum on the Methods board.)

Thus to my knowledge there are four private and one public boards, of which currently only two have any "life", though the other three remain potentially active.

As regards the Methods Group, this was established unilaterally by a member of the VDW Analysis Group, who then invited the other members of that Group (including me) to join. In turn, those initial members drew the existence of the board to other VDWers thought suitable, some of whom have never, to the best of my knowledge, been members of Gummy's board.

In sum, throughout the lifetime of Gummy's thread - and indeed (I believe) before it started - there have been other VDW forums, and members of more than one have always had a choice of where to post. Where they decide to do so reflects not some deep plot to undermine this thread - of which I suspect you believe me to be an instigator - but on ambiance. If people experience a more civil ambiance on one board than another, and perhaps consequentially get more helpful responses, where are they more likely to post?

A final point to respond to a comment you made on the "80%" thread. If you ignore me, then I'll gladly leave you alone, as I have done for quite a few days, despite the obvious temptation. If you don't (and that means indirect comment as well as personally addressed postings), then you can count on me "irritating" you whenever the opportunity arises.


III

Thanks, and the same to you re profitability.

[This message was edited by Fulham on July 13, 2003 at 04:07 PM.]

The question was directed specifically at Guest, for a very good reason, although I would have taken very long odds that you would leap in first.
The question is very simple and direct, and, as is your way, you have written the usual lengthy obfuscation, without any attempt to answer the question.
I will ignore your post, and wait to see if Guest will give an answer to the question I posed.
If that last paragraph is meant to be a threat, I have been worried by dead sheep before, but have never worried about them.

JohnD - Seeing as I do not run the group you ask about, how can I answer accurately?

I think Fulham may have covered the gist of your queries though. All I can say, is that when I joined the group a few weeks ago, there were 20 members and now there are 26. They did not all originate from Gummys board, but it is a noteable that most of those who are/have been members of the Gummy board are much more active in their posting without the worry of being abused or ridiculed. That is why people are posting less and less useful posts on the VDW thread.

This board did have a membership of over 230 at one stage, but it seems that the membership counter is no longer for our eyes. This could be for any number of reasons including software changes,etc. I'm sure there are plenty of newcomers on the board though, but are they all posting?

Johnd

I never threaten, but I'll take that as a no, and look forward to appraising critically your future selections. (That should guarantee you get a few winners!)

Incidentally, in the hope that it stops a further erroneous conspiracy theory focused around Guest growing in your mind, it was me who brought the Methods board to Guest's attention.

[This message was edited by Fulham on July 13, 2003 at 05:50 PM.]

John - Fulham has answered your question, the answer being by recommendation. There are people contacting each other via email outside of this board you know? They didn't all meet here.

The 80% Challenge
Have you quit while youre ahead?

As expected, a more forthright, if incomplete, answer to my question. I think there is enough in the last few posts to indicate the real problem with this thread, members will draw their own conclusions, but the abuse is not a new phenomenon.

Fulham
I never suspected Guest of anything underhanded, I certainly could not say the same for you. It is a fact that every member you seduce away from this board is a knife in Gummy's back.

Johnd
You really are a very jealous person,You tried to weazel the methods out of people by proclaiming you were some kind of messiah,when really your interpretaion is miles off and because a majority aren't posting on here as frequently,It's upset you,Ahhhh.The thing is johnd if gummy did blow posters out they would follow someone like you,Straight to the poor house Mr 3%.

Where we would all find you investor.

Johnd

As I thought I'd made clear, I haven't "seduced" anyone away: I've merely given Guest and others some information that I thought might be of interest to them.

I think it is true to say that those who weren't posting here at the time I passed the information to them still aren't, but those who were, like Guest, still are.

You are being as perverse in this matter as in your belief - against massive evidence - that you have the faintest clue as to what VDW's approach really is. The reason this thread is currently going through a less fertile period owes everything to the ambiance - mindless disruption and crude abuse. When those two stop, it can be confidently predicted that the thread will resume its former liveliness.

A good start would be for JIB, Epiglotis and Jimmy, none of whom have the slightest interest in VDW except to try to disparage the approach and those who seek to understand it, to confine their attentions to threads where they do have an interest. A good second would be if you confined your evident dislike of me to the "80%" thread. I am not, of course, suggesting that you shouldn't post here - just that you keep the abusive ones on the other thread, and I'll confine my retorts to that thread.

Nobody asked me but if they did, I`d cut this thread a bit of slack.

Fair enough but would someone please tell investor there is a difference between a full stop and a comma.

Boozer
anything for a quiet life.To be honest I forgot all about it,but I can let you in to a secret,if I had been putting up a few recently I would be down to about 10%,lol.

Jimmy.,:;
If i did visit the poor house,.? Then we would at last meet up.....:;' wouldn't that be fun.|{@^

Your first sentence says it all, not only about the way you have deliberately undermined this board, but also your snide and devious character.

Now the truth is out about Fulham's role in enticing members away from this board, will you still continue to accept his advertising?

JIB

You write: "I see from your previous post that you think I am an impediment to this thread ... So as a dissenting voice I am now to be exiled, wouldnt it just be easier to convince me of your/its worth?"

Yes, I do think you are an impediment. "Exiling" isn't a matter for me: I'm suggesting you might choose to withdraw from an area which is patently not of interest to you to those which are, and leave others to pursue their interest without your interventions. That apart, I'm not the least interested in convincing you of anything: if, as it seems, you don't see potential value in VDW's work, that is your right. As you will have observed, though, others take a different view.


Johnd

You seem unable to understand perfectly clear posts, and to be intent on looking for what simply isn't there.

You clearly don't believe anything I say but to make the record crystal clear for others, particularly Gummy, I am not the proprietor of the Methods Group, nor do I have any role in that Group except as a member, nor does any question of financial benefit to me arise. (Nor, I should think, does the issue of financial benefit to anyone arise: the board, like Gummy's, has no subscription and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, no source of income whatsoever).

Neither am I involved in ANY matter re VDW where any issue of commercialism arises. From time to time I've been able to help other members with information and materials, and from time to time other members have similarly helped me, eg with the CD of Guest's posts. In none of these exchanges (which, rightly in my view, this board specifically facilitates) has any question of charges, fees or commercialism in any form arisen.

It occurs to me that, with the omission of the word "perfectly", the first sentence of this post could serve as a comment on your understanding of VDW. In the light of your results, it would perhaps be worth your while reflecting on it?

[This message was edited by Fulham on July 14, 2003 at 06:32 AM.]