for Black Cat

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ectoo,

For Ectoo (deleted virus comments)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

No problem with the current "virus" -

any thread needs "A kick up the arse" from time to time

If interested parties have no confidence to survive such attacks - then maybe their posts have not the value that they claim ???

I worked hard to keep this thread alive - and believe that "ALL" contributors help us to better understand - our own betting !!

If folk havn't the "Brains" to apply - some "filters" of their own -

Then that is "Their Problem" !!

Gummy - I suggest - is only there to "Moderate"

(a) - Personal abuse

(b) - Bad language - ('cept good Old Fashioned - "Strine" )

tc

Edited out virus content

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Bc -

Personaly - if you were to stop posting , on this thread - then I would be sorry !

I realy am interested in , and "enjoy" your postings !

However -

I have "yet to see" - a convincing posting from a "Self Proclaimed" - "Priest" - which carries enough weight - to set him as "The Messiah" of the religion.

Untill I do so - then - I shall - "Keep Watching" - with Interest

Good Fun - Innit ???

a bit strong calling Mtoto a virus

he says on the other thread that methods with profit are crap

it's worth discussing

if you are actually alluding to me then piss off because i'm fed up with arrogant idiots making attacks then crying when they get some back..you cast the first stone here with the above posting..just for those that want to point the figure

grow up black cat

this thread is valid as Mtoto seems to represent a fair few people here who like talking about racing but resent anyone that is more interested in making a bob or two. i don't understand that mentality and maybe someone can explain it.

i love you really BC

Ectoo,

Well, the toys are right out of the pram. You have been very busy since you came home from work.

I will stick to this thread to answer your tantrums.

No, I'm not the slightest bit interested in your standard times. If that is what you think they are, how do you get a standard time when only 4/5 races have been run over a distance? I did notice on another forum someone did ask how you achieved this startling feat. No answer was the reply it's a secret. Even if I wanted to use a standard time I certainly wouldn't be interested in one that is a mythical time arrived at by using an equal mythical horse carry a mythical 9st.

I didn't say your methods were crap, I said they could be improved by using a more refined selection method. When you started with the Pipe factor you used a filter, a quite clever one I think I mentioned it. Then success went to you head forget the filter. I asked you about a filter that must be fairly easy to apply.

You mentioned this handicap weight compression idea, I have no problems with it. The problem I have is this idea that every time a trainer runs two horses in a race the ONLY reason is to keep the weight of the 2nd horse down. Isn't it a better idea to check if the lower rated horse is even half way capable of winning said race?

Your s/f may well have shown the winners you claim, I can't comment as you declined to explain how you worked them. I do know the way I work the 12/1 winner could have been found without a s/f from Wolverhampton, I think the one from Lingfield would have done the trick. Yes, this has to be after timing as I didn't look at the card at the time, but I'm not claiming it in any way.

If your methods are so profitable why were you bleating on another forum you couldn't find a winner for love or money? You sir are a butterfly, you flit from method to method in the hope of finding success. You are also a big disappointment, reading some of your posts on other forums I was mistaken into thinking you knew your onions. As you say you have been at it for a long time, but without temperament this time is just a waste. You do have some interesting ideas/thoughts and think outside the box at times. Go back to the Janet and John and get some basics to put with the ideas, and for god's sake NEVER give up the day job.

I will also say the person that said you wouldn't be an asset to the forum knew his onions, and is a good judge of people.

Be Lucky

do you think i've thrown a tantrum? lol

you really don't understand me Mtoto and i suppose it's difficult through this medium

i never said EVER anywhere on the net in the last 3.5 years i am a successfull bettor..although i did have a good year last year..last few weeks haven't been bad either.

people who claim to be successfull on MB's are usually LOSERS clawing for attention.

a lot of people here think they have cracked this game after a couple of years, more fool them.

as for leg work..not many will beat me on that..i can GUARANTEE it.

i laugh my arse off when i read this flitting shite..i'll tell you something..you had better have EVERY string to your bow at this game..sticking to one area and showing ignorance in other areas will LOSE you money..fact.

you can feel as superior as you want with me mate but at the end of the day that strikes me in a similar way to those who want others to think they win everyday..sad.

the level of arrogance shown on this forum by people who have a lot of legwork to put in, by some way, is staggering.

i don't know a lot about racing but deary me..being told by virtual newbies that i have a lot to learn is hilarious.

i was systemiting in the seventies eigthies and nineties

i might just have a bit of experience that COULD save people here a lot of time..that won't happen though because you all know everything there is to know don't you?

no one ever developed by pretending to know it all

Edited yet more virus comments!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Hi TC

Thanks for you last post. But no, I don't think it is fun really. I'm quite cheesed off to be honest. You have not seen the BlackCat post quite like this before have you? Shows you what I must really think as I don't like confrontation.

You said "I have "yet to see" - a convincing posting from a "Self Proclaimed" - "Priest" - which carries enough weight - to set him as "The Messiah" of the religion."

Neither have I. And I am not the Christ either. But that is beside the point.

And for goodness sake - this is the VDW forum. Why can't they be left in peace to discuss in any way they wish. They are doing no harm for goodness sake.

Anyway, as I say, thanks for your comments. But I also contribute to a runners message board and have done for several months now. In all that time, I have not witnessed ANY of the repeated sh*t that finds its way onto racing forums. Everyone is friendly. Everyone is helpful. And that is the truth.

BlackCat

Edited out unhelpful comments!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

virus

n 1: (virology) ultramicroscopic infectious agent that replicates itself only within cells of living hosts; many are pathogenic; a harmful or corrupting agency; "bigotry is a virus that must not be allowed to spread"; "the virus of jealousy is latent in everyone" 3: a software program capable of reproducing itself and usually capable of causing great harm to files or other programs on the same computer; "a true virus cannot spread to another computer without human assistance.

Bc
Nil carborondum!
This particular strain of virus always self-destructs in the end, and the forum will quickly regain its former health.

It is as if Ectoo has taken over my role.
I wanted proof of VDW winners. There never were any, well not many, and certainly not many odds against.
He baits because he has seen the same (in general).

All he wants is someone or some people to post a few good odds-against winners to prove the validity of the method.

Just like me, everytime no-one does it just puts more doubt on the method.

Blackcat and Seanura showed they could get 2 out of three places and all three places in the Hennessy. WELL THAT is super picking.

Well why couldn,t any of the rest of you?

I have never met Ectoo, haven't a clue whom he is whatsoever, but I do share his wish that VDW chaps could prove some bloody good winners.

I have said that anyway, long before Ectoo appeared on the board.

Ok a few favourites win and Guest once got a 20-1 with dutching 3 or 4 horses,
But otherwise ther has not been much has there over the last 3 YEARS?

I have to admit it annoys me loads cos I know the massive winners I have picked , but can't always obviously,

So many people so much combined knowledge................

On many other threads I have produced facts and figures that could well put everyone in the right direction, but the response is usually minimal.

A lot of VDW peoople would not even look at such threads cos they don't even want to know
anything that might make more than their "IDOL"

I CAN SEE EXACTLY why Ectoo slags it off.

And , unfortunately, in the world of internet message boards, telling Ectoo or JIB or me to go away, just won't happen, unless we wonder why the hell we are bothering anyway.

Why do we bother?...................Who knows?

BC,

your new to this VDW game, been here done that. Look behind, inbetween and over the lines and figure out just exactly WHY certain individuals get so excited. I can guarantee thats its more to do with hiding things than insults. Why discuss excellent points raised when we can have a playground fight. Far more exciting! Take it from me, look at the posts in the day leading up to this and other scuffles and you will see why people try so hard to distract attention.

Amusing title for this thread, particularly as the VDW business is so like a game of Simon says.

Hi Swish

My intent in writing is not to see Ectoo "go away". My intent is to get him to modify his attitude and comments to other people. If you read the early pages of the thread set up for Investor, you may see why I felt the need to write as I see the same thing about to happen to Mtoto elsewhere. Then who next when Mtoto is driven away? Me? Lee? Johnd?

Let's say Ectoo and you are right about the VDW methods. What if they really are no good? So what?

If these people get enjoyment from discussing the methods, what is that to you? You have come to your conclusions. Let them come to theirs.

Gummy has set this forum up on his board. As I posted earlier, if it exits merely to rubbish the methods, then please tell me, and I will not bother to visit. However, I shall continue to assume it is for the purpose of people who want to discuss the methods of VDW in a civil and couteous way until told otherwise.


I don't have a problem with other people after-timing either. They make a point about certain aspects, which you can then CHECK against future races. It will either stand or fall. But if you are not given that opinion, you are the loser in the long run (imo).

Anyway, that's what I think.

The thing of it is that Ectoo and yourself have such a great knowledge of other aspects of racing, and it is wonderful that you both desire to share it. It is a pity that people don't show more interest. And perhaps people should look at what you've all got to say. But you can't make them.

(Edited unhelpful comments)
BlackCat

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

There is another VDW thread/forum, where there is little dissent and no one is expected to pre-date selections. I would suggest that those who post here do so because they accept and agree with the philosophy that the forge must be hot if you want to fashion a tool.

Personally I would not want to read the contributions of someone who did not have the conviction to defend his ideas vigourously. My views on some of Mtotos ideas are well known ( ) but I am obliged to respect the fact that he keeps bouncing back to defend them even when his position seems (to me at least!) perilous.

Ectoo has the courage to advance his ideas with clear ante-post selections as evidence, it would appear that this is considered by some to be 'dirty' or 'unfair' tactics. Surely that attitude is getting close to absurdity? (Having arrived at futility after waving goodbye to its family on the platform at reality some time back. )

Ectoos understanding of VDW is not unsimilar to my own (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). We both see the principal flaw in the methodology as its overwhelming horse~bias. Ectoo has started various threads whose obvious intention has been to highlight parts of the vital human component mostly in the form of the trainer.

To be rid of these unpleasant reminders of reality, Ectoo (as I, in turn, am often accused) is said to have no right to post because he doesnt 'believe' in the methodolgy. That is like the defense saying the prosecution should be disqualified because it is uncomplimentary about the accused.

Above all other interests, a valid forum, on whatever subject, must have as its ultimate objective; the honest truth. That can only be achieved by taking all opinions into account. And it can only be achieved by being at liberty to examine all the evidence of the witnesses, or demand its presence should it not be forthcoming.

As PKB has pointed out, why is it exactly when at the moment that the debate is reaching a conclusion, like the babys head coming into sight, do some cry 'Foul!' and wish to have a differing opinion silenced?

When Swish started this thread over three years ago, the AR and CR were unquestionable godheads, now their broken statues are trampled upon by all. That only happened after about 600 pages of what was at times v bloody argument. Bland pap would have finished this thread years ago and I say thank goodness for the courage, determination, and skill of all its contributors.

Hi JIB

You have managed to put the smile back on my face. Not an easy task with how I feel at the moment.



I am always pleased to read your posts. Whilst I agree with some of your views on the methodology, I do not agree with everything you say. But that’s OK. No harm done. No acrimonious, personally insulting or baiting posting.

(BC deleted unhelpful comments)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Black Cat,

Dont try to modify anyones attitude. Use the fights and name calling as "Flags" and "Markers" to direct you to the pertinant points. These VDW police are essential to stop aspects of the methodology coming into the public domain. Dont abhore it, Welcome it with open arms and try to find out why? When you understand the true nature of the VDW police force its an altogether more enjoyable afair and the futility of their actions will become apparent to them, when the true reasons for kerfuffles are known.

If you really want to put the "cat amongst the pigeons" go back and debate the cause points.

Hi PKBoy

I'll have a look tonight. Cheers,

BlackCat