Hmmmm !

Does - anyone - Subcribe to "Superform " ???

know what - I am "talking about" ????

yes mate

the pace figures they produce are flawed though

they don't allow for class of race..the fastest "pace" figure sometimes is just that because the best horses contested that race on the card.

Ectoo,

Another pearl, the same symptomatic idiosyncrasies, could, with perfect justification be applied to most commercial SF. How do you work out yours?

Hmmm

Isn't that - "Just what " I was suggesting ??

It's going to be "Bloody expensive" - but I suppose I will - "Give it a Try" -

Cant be more "Expensive" than listening to "Colin Davey" tho !

-

pk

Contribution - "Welcome" - please !

With all due respect to speedfig fans, those speedfigs that are calculated considering weight have a a large exposed Achilles heel.

Adding weight to a horse may in the end slow it down, but starting from the same point it is v unsafe to think that taking weight off will speed it up.

Perhaps a speedfig should be adjusted by the number of runners and/or the average OR of the race but I dont know any which do.

JIB -

oddly enough you have just echoed one of VDWs statements !

"Bugger" !!

-

No matter how much weight you take off a "Donkey" - you can't make it into a "Derby Winner"

on the other hand "Yorkshire" showed - that "Weight " will "Stop the Train" !! - Was it 13st that it failed to defeat ???

JiB and TC: not just VDW also Braddock, etc, again nothing new.

PK

Simple, by an expected time per class..Superform is a simplistic pace figure based all race times at a meeting regardless of class.

ectoo -

sorry - "nicht verstine" - could you expand plese ?????????

Ectoo,

how many length's would you expect a 120 rated horse to beat ahorse rated 105

TC

Ive tried to follow or guess the pace of races but what seems to phuck things up is the trainers instructions to the jockey,
Front runners being held up and this could lead them to be distressed and vice versa,
What ive not had time to do is follow this with a trainer that does well at a course,
When i get more time might start and check out just the stiff courses as horses to me seem to run to form

TC

superform ignores class when working out the pace figures therefore a higher class race will normally be faster than a lesser class race but superform treats each race as if they are all the same class

PK

is that flat racing and what distance?

ectoo,

why do you feel that matters? I didnt have anything specific in mind, it was a general question. If you think there are differences due to class and distance, what are the differences?

why

don't you know?

don't keep fishing

we have people here that don't understand the basic class hierarchy of how races are graded..i wouldn't worry about discussing much else when they never get questioned for their ignorance, but you are throwing questions at me like Chris Tarrant.

why should i be arsed to respond?

The whole structure of racing is based on the OR value of class. In flat racing this patently obvious by the fact that is the horses with the highest ORs that take up a second career at stud.

A horse that wins a valuable B hcp is probably good enough to win a smaller Gp3 event but the prizemoney for these starts at a lousy 12k, whereas big hcps start at 50k.

99% of horses are initially graded at level weights in both codes (after starting in maidens and novices). Subsequent runs re-adjust the class grading as the horses career developes. As the grading gets better it can reach a point where the horse returns to racing at level weights again. The reason for this is to determine which horses are better than others and in consequence would be best for breeding.

Horses that cannot be competative in these level weight races then try their hands at hcps or if they are no good at that end up in sellers and maiden hcps. The grading takes the form of of the OR.

As far as I can see Group class is superior to Hcp class, except in the theoretical circumstances that the runners in a Group race have all been placed at the wrong conditions for them.

somebody that knows what they are talking about

a breath of fresh air

don't you just love it JIB when people haven't grasped the basics but then put themselves on some VDW higher level and pretend they are racing gurus?

it's like someone being a professor of maths that can't add 2 + 2 up..some professor eh?

all this talk of class and very few vdwers even understand page one..not one vdwer corrected JohnD..worrying really.

Ectoo,

I am just exploring the full extent of your dual standards.

i doubt i have any old boy

if i had you wouldn't be smart enough

Ectoo,

a bit janet and john isnt it, youll be coming up with crumpers like all the other noddy's next, that X has beaten Z and its three pounds ahead of the handicapper. LOL.