""
This should bring to the fore something that the
acquisition of temperament'will £how you. Betting every
day down and across the card is a fool's game when, by
being in complete control you can strike one, two or
perhaps three good bets over a period of a week and
really get somewhere. Why bust your gut when there is
no need? Leave that to the mug punters who are going
to pay your way for you."""


from page 10, Systematic Betting by VDW.

Seanrua
Yes,That's correct.Who's playing accross the cards.

Seanrua
Sat april 14th 1978.Provided only 5 races from all cards worth consideration.Kempton 2.00, 2.30, 3.05,Newcastle 2.30 and towcester 2.15.If they care to read again and apply the principles,They will find five winners.Proven,Man of vision Sofronoff Baptism amd mitchelstown.

In spells it all out he picked 2 from haydock and 1 each from Newbury,Market rasen and Hereford.

It all depends on the class of races.From my point of view i lack a bit of Temperement,But i certainly don't play accross the cards.

Em, what about Saturday, December 11, 2004?

So, Investor, you don't play across the cards but " he" did; is "he" VDW?

Seanrua
"he" is vdw and he didn't play across the cards,I have given you races for selection.So i don't really see what your trying to get at.I haveseen on occasions 3 races worth 29 grand at the principal meeting.So what do you do in that kind of scenario.Stick to the higher class races was the message he gave.I now play in novice hurdles and that may be going away from what vdw thought,But the method works just aswell as long as the horses have decent form and the races are higher class.

Maybe we should have a thread entitled

" CREDIBILITY" to go with all the others.

You have helped me in the past, Investor, for which I'm grateful.

Now I don't think we understand each other's posts at all.

I'm not very well myself; are you sure you're alright?

are you sure you're alright?

he won't know Sean, he'll have to check the 1973 schweppes hurdle to find out

Seanrua
Then please explain what your getting at.

Ectoo
He eye he eye ho.LOL

INVESTOR,

Sorry I didn't come back to you yesterday.

Were they my class/form horses was the question you asked.

In short, no because I am still not fully aware of what constitutes a VDW FORM HORSE.

The 5 x named horses were what I felt had good winning chances yesterday based on various elements of VDW.

ALL,

Ectoo made the statement that MONKERHOSTIN wasn't a 'form' horse yesterday. What do others think ?

Determined: Ectoo was quoting Investor.

Determined
Monkerhostin had the traits that are evident,But imo he ran 3rd behind Thisthatandother And celestial gold 2nd to last run in receipt of 12 lbs from T.Last time out although of a higher weight in lower class he went down to an inferior animal in a race he should have won.The revised weights were in his favour yesterday,But i personally saw the run lto as a downturn.This is only my opinionof course.

Seanrua
I think i understand the confusion.In my posts i was putting "accross" the cards when i should have been putting "through".Vdw played Across the the cards in that he picked at least one race from each meeting,That race being the highest class.But he was dead against betting in every race through the cards.Hope that's more understandable.

Epiglotis,

Thanks for pointing that out.

Seanrua,

Firstly, well very done in finding Monkerhostin. I haven't been keeping full tabs on this forum in the recent past so with the greatest respect I am not sure where you stand on VDW on making your selections.

I make the point because I'd be very interested in whether you are anyone else made `M` a FORM HORSE THE VDW WAY.

Investor (not Ectoo - sorry for the mistake) has stated that he thought `M` was not a form horse and hopefully he'll put up his reason(s).

What are my thoughts ?

`M` was certainly well placed in the forecast and the bare numerical consistency ratings and therefore one for closer study.

The questions for me with regards to `M`

a) was his run last time when dropped in class (value) and beaten when 9/4 fav' considered a downturn on his previous run

b) if taking the view that his last run was considered as good as his penultimate run (not a downturn) we then have to ask ourselves how do we view his run against Thisthatandtother on 13/11/04 in the context of todays race ?

Investor,

Hadn't seen your latest post before mine and cannot respond right now as I'm on my way out.

More later !

no probs Determined

Investor

Last time out although of a higher weight in lower class he went down to an inferior animal in a race he should have won


he had very little chance of winning that race as it was very slowly run and his running style meant he was at a disadvantage..nothing to do with class, in fact it was a Grade 2 hurdle where he was carrying 11-08 giving weight to 140 horses which means it was a harder race than yesterdays. Yesterday he was receiving weight from 140 horses and had the race run to suit.

You must learn the difference between pattern class and handicaps young man

Ectoo
I made a decision based on what i have seen in past examples.You may well be right,Monkerhostin certainly had the ability to win the race and was on much better terms with Thisthatandtother.But both This horse and Monets garden were inferior horse imo,And should have been beaten.I didn't play in the race because of the revised weights but i wouldnt have backed monkerhostin.That is my perogative There will be plenty more.

Determined
You say that Monkerhostin figured well in the market,This he has done for quite some time.But we can't bet on that alone.We also have to take into consideration what the horse has achieved and against what.Then we have to make a comparison,But the question i asked myself when looking at monkerhostin was what had Monets garden beaten prior to meeting M.The answer had to be,Not a lot.

Ectoo
Monkerhostin had finished 3rd in class 638 grade A at cheltenham,Recieving weight and well fancied in the market.Monet's garden Had been dropped in class penultimate run (to collect) in a 7 grand novice hurdle at perth.There is a world of difference in the runs of the 2 mentioned horses.

yes one was a hurdle race the other a chase

giving weight to 140 horses is harder than receiving weight from them

graded non handicaps are harder to win than handicaps.

Monkerhostin was dropped in class yesterday.

Ectoo
i take your point r.e Hurdles and chases,But how was he dropped in class,The race was the same penalty value as the run behind thisthatandtother(vdw way)he getting 12lb of said horse What class of animal had "T" been running against in comparison to "M".The revised weights were well in his favour and he crtainly had the class.But i couldn't have him yesterday based on the cheltenham run behind Thisthatandtother.Like i say i may well have made an error in judgement,But you pays your money you takes your chance and i wasn't prepared to take what i considered a risk,In this particular race.

he was dropped in class because yesterday's race was a handicap where he was receiving weight from 140 horses..in the conditions hurdle he was giving weight to 140 horses..therefore yesterday was an easier task.

The handicap may have a higher rated horse in but it has more weight to carry which negates it's superior rating. That is why a graded non handicap is of higher class.

Handicaps are generally for horses that cannot win level weight contests, they are inferior, class wise, events..the £ value is irrelevant and in no way reflects any class level to a horse.

In a handicap over the sticks a horse can receive 2 stone from the best horse in that contest..that means it has been aided to win..it doesn't get that aid in a conditions event.

Handicaps are not rises in class from graded non handicaps..they are drops