|
 Author | Topic: 'Winner in the Race' (Read 546 times) |
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
![[send pm]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/message_sm.gif)
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male 
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
|  | 'Winner in the Race'
« Thread Started on Apr 7, 2009, 8:42am » | ![[Quote]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) ![[Modify]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/modify.gif) ![[Delete]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/delete.gif) |
Reading the Archive, on pages 48/49 they are talking about the above phrase.
Statajack calls it a 'cryptic clue' as in a crossword. I've always thought of it as being a horse primed for a win, if the trainer placed it correctly.
Anyone know what the answer to the cryptic clue might be?
| |
|
Arkle55
God
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/99.jpg)
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #1 on Apr 7, 2009, 9:25am » | |
CHILLED
I also thought it was how the trainer placed his / her horse with some cryptic throw in there as well. I believe the cryptic part may be based on how the trainers send there horses on the supposedly wrong tracks / ground / distance etc and stiil managing to get a win. I believe there are times when it is a surprize that there horse has won, but there must be times when they know when they have a good chance of winning, when it appears somthing will inconvience their horse.
| |
|
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #2 on Apr 7, 2009, 12:03pm » | |
A55
Are you reading the Archives or were you a member of Gummy at the time?
Some good stuff, but will take ages to get thro'. About your answer to my question, I think they might have something else in mind, will keep reading and looking at the selections. If I see something I will post it (cryptically??)
| |
|
Arkle55
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #3 on Apr 7, 2009, 7:50pm » | |
CHILLED
I, joined Gummy approx a year ago , so more towards the end.I have read through some of the archives, it takes me a long time to read through things, so i have to have plenty of time on my hands before i tackle it again. May i ask , what is it that you think that THEY (WHO EVER THAT WAS) might have in mind.
| |
|
IMP
Junior Member
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/santa.jpg)
Super Procrastinator and Poster of Inane Drivel!
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 92
Location: Hadrian's Wall -> ->
| |
Arkle55
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #5 on Apr 7, 2009, 9:09pm » | |
IMP
Which one is VDW 
| |
|
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #6 on Apr 7, 2009, 10:03pm » | |
A55
No idea, don't think I'll spend too much time on a cryptic clue, was never much good with crosswords.
IMP
Like the photos mate!!
| |
|
garstonf
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 39
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #7 on Apr 10, 2009, 12:21am » | |
Chilled
The expression “a winner in the race” or “a winner in a race” first appeared at the beginning of 1987 in a paragraph in the booklet “Winning Ways to Bet” and was repeated in “Make Racing Pay” then later in “Systematic Betting” and finally in “Racing In My System”.
The paragraph in Winning Ways read;
“The VDW Approach is a method, not a system, which produces a numerical evaluation of the odds based on relevant factors thereby creating a picture from which it is possible to determine if there is a winner IN the race not OF the race. The majority of punters look at a race with the object of finding the winner and will end up convinced that such and such a horse fits the bill. I suggest they should instead determine if there is a horse with all the attributes of a winner. Having done this, evaluate its capability of doing so in the present situation.”
The answer to the cryptic clue in the crossword lies in the first sentence of the paragraph. It is an 8 letter word and knowing the first 4 letters I think the answer must be bullfrog. I can’t think of any other 4 letters to follow bull that would make up a word.
If anyone can explain how a numerical evaluation of the odds can determine a winner in a race then please do so.
| |
|
Walter Pidgeon
God
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/KennethMore.jpg)
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,628
Location: Scotland
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #8 on Apr 10, 2009, 10:46am » | |
Garston the only example ive seen of how a numerical evaluation of the odds helped to determine the winner of a race was on one of the old vdw boards.It concerned the Sunset Christo race.. i used to have it on file but not anymore i may have it printed out somewhere though.
I remember putting it up on Gummy for the members but the article was shot down in flames by one of the resident guru`s as bulls..t
I`ll have a wee look later if i can find it i will write it up.
|
![[image]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/star.png) 2009 Tipping Challenge Winner 11,449.71 pts profit.... 10 months played. |
|
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #9 on Apr 10, 2009, 4:29pm » | |
garstonf
Appreciate your post, but I have had the booklets for many years.
| |
|
Bold Gait
New Member
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/fearlesspunter/Funnies/MuffinTheMule2.jpg)
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 29
Location: Leeds
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #10 on Apr 10, 2009, 10:04pm » | |
I would not be so disparaging of VDW and his cryptic clues.
When he realised that people were struggling to get to the bottom of his methods he became rather careless (or generous!) and a good few parts of his method were actually given in the form of cryptic clues. These are found more easily in the booklets.
How I solved a few was to read every sentence as I worked through the form for some of the horses in Systematic Betting. I have also done a few from The Ultimate Wheil of Fortune. It takes time mindst, but can be very rewarding.
A lot of the time some of the most important points are the ones readers skim over to get to the comments, say ,about a particular horse. He was a very clever man who certainly knew his onions when it came to horse racing.
I do not understand Cosmology and Physics, but I do not take the p**** out of Stephen Hawkins!! LOL
| |
|
Walter Pidgeon
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,628
Location: Scotland
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #11 on Apr 10, 2009, 10:15pm » | |
Had it printed out but cant put my hands on it.
|
2009 Tipping Challenge Winner 11,449.71 pts profit.... 10 months played. |
|
Arkle55
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #12 on Apr 10, 2009, 11:08pm » | |
BG
Can you please tell us which parts of vdw's method's were given as cryptic clues.
| |
|
Bold Gait
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 29
Location: Leeds
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #13 on Apr 10, 2009, 11:51pm » | |
A 55
I spent hours on this and produced a document of 10 sides of Word on race analysis and VDW's clues that he gave as I went through just a few horses in Systematic betting. I am certainly not posting up the solutions that I found. I could only suggest that you do the same and when you have, we can PM each other and hopefully you will have found something I have missed.
But to give you a sample we have
"Go back to the beginning and you will find it all tied up with temperament and the odds".
Much later he gives the answer to this, although you can skim over it.
Likewise re Pegwell Bay
"The result makes it appear he is capable of winning again before long"
WHY?
A lot of what he wrote was deliberately riddled and it is a case of unwinding it.
| |
|
Arkle55
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #14 on Apr 11, 2009, 8:20pm » | |
BG
May i ask , why you are of the opinion that vdw deliberately wrote in riddle's.
| |
|
Bold Gait
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 29
Location: Leeds
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #15 on Apr 12, 2009, 12:50am » | |
Not all is in 'riddles' but some definitely are, as I have solved some of them. (and that is for sure)
If you have the 87 and 88 form books and work through the text in Systematic Betting with the form you will see some of them and perhaps all.
Problem is, and I am not suggesting this applies to you, many will not put in the required study to find the answers.
| |
|
Arkle55
God
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 621
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #16 on Apr 12, 2009, 7:40pm » | |
BG
Is it possible that you could put some horses up, that in your opinion are vdw types in the forth coming weeks please.
| |
|
Bold Gait
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 29
Location: Leeds
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #17 on Apr 13, 2009, 7:17pm » | |
I have not placed many wagers on Systematic Betting yet as I have not finished completely what I aimed to do first. I also need to watch it this flat and get familiar with its use.
As for bets on horses moving up in class I have already posted up pre race the winner of the Jewson Novices hcp chase at Cheltenham on the Thursday of 2007 and 2008 on the other forum, that I think you were a member of at the time or still are.
In the morning I got 28/1 and 12/1 on those two on Betfair and I will not be promising to post up any more in the near future.
If you want an aftertimed one it was the winner of last year's Lincoln. BUT I seem to remember that I took a risk with that one.
This year I could not find a bet in the Jewson or The Lincoln or the National for that matter.
I do not usually bother with the big races as it takes up far too much time and I have other interests.
| |
|
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #18 on Apr 14, 2009, 8:40am » | |
BG
Do you use VDW every time you have a bet? Is it really worth all the study? The people who have made it work like Beppo and SK, seem to have used certain parts of VDW and added some of their own.
| |
|
Bold Gait
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 29
Location: Leeds
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #19 on Apr 14, 2009, 11:45am » | |
Chilled
"Do you use VDW every time you have a bet"?
Generally speaking, yes
But I have not been at this VDW game long and I have a lot more work to do re the methods.
"Is it really worth all the study"?
Yes, there is a lot there, although some of it is hidden or cryptic. That is what interests me. Horse racing is not my main hobby, so I just do my research in short bursts.
A lot depends on how you (or others)judge 'worth'. Is it by the amount of money you will make or the knowledge gained and the satisfaction of a puzzle unravelled. Hopefully it is a bit of both.
| |
|
chilled
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 258
Location: South of the Border
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #20 on Apr 14, 2009, 4:25pm » | |
BG
Thanks for the reply, good luck with your research.
| |
|
grimsbottom
New Member
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/trojan.gif)
Joined: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #21 on Apr 21, 2009, 8:57am » | |
Apr 11, 2009, 8:20pm, Arkle55 wrote:BG
May i ask , why you are of the opinion that vdw deliberately wrote in riddle's. |
|
A clue may be found in his response page 679 of "Systems From My Small Room IV"
My first is in Pineapple, thought to be Peach,
My second is Intelligent, far out of reach
My third is for Sadists who enjoy a good chase,
My fourth is Subjective to help them save face,
My fifth is Oblique, to fool the Obtuse,
My sixth can be Fakenham, though only in Fun,
Forever full circle, and never be done.
| |
|
BC
Administrator
member is online
![[avatar]](http://blackcat-racing.co.uk/avatars/jacksparrow.jpg)
"Not all treasure is silver and gold, mate"
Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 790
Location: Bedfordshire
| | Re: 'Winner in the Race'
« Reply #22 on Apr 21, 2009, 11:45am » | |
Apr 21, 2009, 8:57am, grimsbottom wrote:
Apr 11, 2009, 8:20pm, Arkle55 wrote:BG
May i ask , why you are of the opinion that vdw deliberately wrote in riddle's. |
|
A clue may be found in his response page 679 of "Systems From My Small Room IV"
My first is in Pineapple, thought to be Peach,
My second is Intelligent, far out of reach
My third is for Sadists who enjoy a good chase,
My fourth is Subjective to help them save face,
My fifth is Oblique, to fool the Obtuse,
My sixth can be Fakenham, though only in Fun,
Forever full circle, and never be done. |
|
Cheeky monkey. 
|
"It is also helpful to see which horse can't lose rather than which can win. The first doubt should be enough to leave well alone". UWF20
"We are looking for a Ferrari racing a Mini where the Mini has a flat tyre" CD |
|
|
 ![[Move Topic]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/movetopic.gif) ![[Remove Topic]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/removetopic.gif) ![[Unlock Topic]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/unlock.gif) ![[Sticky Topic]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/sticky.gif) ![[Make Announcement]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/makeannouncement.gif) ![[Bump Topic]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/bump.gif) |
![[Home]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif)
![[Help]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif)
![[Search]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif)
![[Members]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/members.gif)
![[Admin]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/admin.gif)
![[Profile]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/profile.gif)
![[Logout]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/logout.gif)
![[Search This Thread]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/search2.gif)
![[Add Bookmark]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/bookmark.gif)
![[Reply]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/reply.gif)
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif)
![[Print]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif)
79.70.213.253