quote:

With the number of ways available to back a horse nowadays, even with a single bookmaker, only a fool would get himself a total ban.

You mean a winning fool rather than a losing fool, johnd?

I very much doubt that any vdw-er has been stopped by the books.

without hope you have nothing just watching f@@kin corrie

we can all hope sean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3mVxGfzPY

Sean

I do know what I'm talking about.
Do you?

Money, money, money.

have decided to try and make a rating for a horse in the style of vdw,why,why not so have changed the ability rating to a percentage,just left the consistency ratings as a percentage then ajusted rpr ratings and top speed giving extra points for days since ran,c/d,class movment,course movement,distance beaten,and finnishing style then changed to a percentage,pointed up a race tomorrow at sandown where hunting countrycomes out best with pervis secound see tomorrow if it was worth my while

Les

Hope your ratings work out for you

RPR ratings the other day napped Hunting country and it did look an ok bet,I remember talking to a pal on the phone saying the racing was very poor for a Saturday and that was one of the better bets and it won very well,
RPR ratings select Presvis tomorrow

Good luck

not a lot between them rab but hunting country was noted quickening lto so gets a good add on

quote:

Sean

I do know what I'm talking about.
Do you?

Yes, johnd, I do.

You may remember that the Levy from the bookies was a lot better than expected, due almost soley to the losses incurred by a hugely losing punter from the Middle East.
This "losing fool"'s account was NOT stopped.

More recently, over on the systems section of TRF, a wealthy old boy in Brighton has been blocked by Ladbrokes. This "winning fool" has been able to make enough profit by backing favourites with a Martingale staking method; so much so, that laddies pulled the plug on him!

All I did was wonder whether any vdw-er has been stopped by the books bc he's too successful for their liking.

Fk knows why you thought you'd come back with a sneering, off-point personal dig, ye fkn whore's bastrd of a contrary fk dog!

Just answer the question next time, please, ye cnt!

Sean

If the limit of your personal experience is what you've read somewhere, then you don't!
A plain enough statement, no sneering, no personal digs, no bullshit, and stone-cold sober! Anything else you read into it is your problem - not mine.

Les

From the examples I've studied so far, from the consistent form and ability perspectives I agree with you that Hunting Country looks very good tomorrow.

I am not so sure about capability issues, though. First, I've seen in some of the posts on the archive thread discussion of the issue of weight, and whether to be a selection for Van der Wheil a horse has to be proven with the weight to be carried. I haven't yet checked his selections from this perspective but if it is a criterion it would rule Hunting Country out. Second, I've been looking at "class/form" as discussed in several articles in "The Ultimate Wheil of Fortune", and in particular the six selections that ran on Boxing Day 1984 and are listed in the article dated 26 January 1985. There, Van der Wheil invited readers to work out why only two of the six, which he named, should be backed. I am far from sure I know the answer(s) from a positive view as regards the two to be backed, but I have noted a point that may explain why he would not have backed the other four. If I am right about that, Hunting Country would again fail a Van der Wheil criterion. (Though in fact the four that Van der Wheil said shouldn't be backed nevertheless all won!)

I stress that Hunting Country looks good to me. He won "easily" lto over the same trip and from a Van der Wheil perspective is only up a little in class. However there are the two points I've referred to above which MAY be negative factors for Van der Wheil.

george always thought right or wrong that the betting or not had to do with improving speed figures i,ve been trying to keep my bets to improving speed figures if i can,i would be keen to know if im right or wrong

john you have great nack of bringing out the best in people lol sean you should become an ambassador its that lovley turn of phrase you have ,have you kissed the blarney stone perhaps lol

Les

It is clear that not all of Van der Wheil's bets had improving speed figures. For example, in the consistency races before the race on 7 March 1981 race for which Van der Wheil described Little Owl as a "certainty", the sfs were as follows:

race 1289 (20/12/80) Little Owl's sf 86
race 1778 (24/01/81) Little Owl's sf 19
race 1872 (31/01/81) no sfs

In the 7 March race (race 2261) Little Owl's sf was 14, so for the Gold Cup on 19 March 1981 where Van der Wheil said he backed the horse he also had a declining set of consistency race sfs: 19/none/14.

Lol @ Les.

Les
I'd advise caution with your bet.
Though Hunting Country won comfortably in the higher class, has the better s/f, and a top class jockey against a one-winner apprentice, an easy 9 length win (Presvis) on his first try over the distance isn't easy to weigh up and he could, at this stage, be anything.
To give you some idea of what you're up against, according to the Official Handicapper's new marks (Which don't kick in until Saturdsy) has Presvis as 6lb superior to HC once wfa is allowed for, yet he only has to give him 1lb tomorrow.
Not a bet I'd take on.

Seanrua

God knows, you don't deserve a reply to you're half-cocked tirade, but I'll give you one anyway.

quote:

More recently, over on the systems section of TRF, a wealthy old boy in Brighton has been blocked by Ladbrokes. This "winning fool" has been able to make enough profit by backing favourites with a Martingale staking method; so much so, that laddies pulled the plug on him!

I had read this, and if you had read it properly you would know that the guy has been betting - in quite large sums in the same shop - for a while now and has won almost 10k this year. Regardless of his winnings, the man is a fool!
Any serious punter should know that the larger multiples keep individual records of every bet struck by their larger staking punters, and know exactly how they are doing, day-to-day and year-to year, and anyone who is continually winning will either be restricted or stopped. Not only that, but he was having the same bets - un-named favs, increasing stakes,stop at a winner - so he could hardly have asked someone else to place his bets without the staff knowing anyway.
Anyone with any sense would have seen the signs much earlier and spread his bets about more.
As you ask so politely , and though it has sfa to do with you, I can also tell you that I have, at times, been restricted; by all the big 4, and a few others, but had enough sense to see the amber light and move around before it became a ban. I'd be quite sure that some other VDW'ers have too, but they, like me, see that as their own business.
Not everything is as it seems in your myopic little world.

ps I'll expect you to call me a liar rather than apologise, because that's obviously the way you view the world.

Well done, johnd!

I think a re-read of the thread will show that one of the most annoying, aggravating,condescending schmucks on the whole vdw thread is your good self.
It's just an opinion, of course.

I have always acknowledged that you, and others here, know far more about vdw methodology than I. Despite all the snotgobbling and shit-shooting, I was prepared to learn and ask questions accordingly.
Fair enough.
I've always been open with my guesses about what I can glean of the vdw myth; I've provided other, more simple, methods that seem to fare no worse than the, very few, vdw-type selections put up on here. Two winners yesterday, in fact.

This is all by the by: what I cannot see the need for
is your personal remarks about other punters - especially when you go into areas where you, patently, are lost.

Anyway, keep up the good work! I shall continue to look in from time to time, when racing permits.
I'll probably be meeting again with a regional manager of one of the Big3 during the next few weeks. Last time, i asked him whether he'd ever had to ban anyone for successful use of VDW, he didn't even know what the fk it was; never heard of such shit, he said!
His boss agreed.
Of course, he may have been forced to find out by now!

We'll see.

would this be the top vdw horse ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkb_Bor2Mx4

well never saw that coming persvis and hunting country beaten quite easily to o well back to the drawing board