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Boozer Thanks for that. All good, simple, and sensible stuff, but nothing like the depth of SIAO, the Roushayd example, or even Desert Orchid for that matter. The guy was obviously aware of the importance of class but, on the limited evidence available, ignores, or is unaware of, what many VDW'ers would regard as fundamentals. To say VDW copied from this is a bit like saying the Wright Brothers copied from Icarus ain't it? ![]() |
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JD,
There was more to it, will look it out and post more up if its no too long winded. |
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The Method
1.Class-5000 race sample 4685 ran in same class or lower 93.7% 315 ran in higher class than last race 6.3% 2.Weight-5000 races 3415 carried same or less weight as in last race 68.3% 1585 carried more weight than in last race but of the 1585 31.7% 845 carried more weight but were dropped in class 740 carried more weight in same or higher class 3.Distance-5000 races 2965 ran same distance as last race 59.3% 1235 ran longer distance 24.7% 800 ran shorter distance 16.0% 4. Finish in last race-5000 races 3080 finished in first three or made up ground 61.6% in the final stages of the race 5.Odds-5000 races 3610 were amongst the first three favourites 72.2% in the betting He then goes on to explain class of racetracks etc which are a wee bit outdated as Teeside and Lanark are mentioned. |
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I gave the above to wee Aussie pal of mine who`s in his 70`s a few years back, he seemed to cotton on pretty quickly but he never telt me, jist laughed , he`s promised me some stuff when he pops his cloggs, says im no ready the noo.
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Jedi Knight Member ![]() |
WP - very interesting statistics.
The stat that jumps out at me is more winners were going up in distance than going down. I'm surprised about that. The other particularly interesting figure is how few winners were being raised in class. Obviously, 'same class' & 'drop in class' should result in more winners. But only 6.3% in 'higher class' - that does seem a very small percentage. It would be interesting to see whether these stats agree with the findings of others, wouldn't it. BC ![]() |
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Id imagine they would fluctuate BC.
For those interested you will find 8 copies available of Voegeles book here. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3...ce+voegele&x=14&y=17 |
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Are they stats from over 30 yrs ago?
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Early 70`s Rab.
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Ta Walt
Anyone think racing and its methods have moved on since then? |
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Maybe the factors are more important i dont know?, anyone have a modern take on them percentage wise?.
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BC are you reading it right or is it me, i take it he`s meaning that 1235 ran longer distance lto than today?. |
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BC
He used racourses in groups rather than prizemoney as class indicater Example although extreme Ascot to Warwick = drop in class All those years back I and the wife started to map out previous years formbooks with the Racecourse group written over the top of the betting forecast of the first 6 in the betting (LTO run) After further studying the results it became apparent that prizemoney LTO was the better indicater. We went on to do a full previous 5 years worth of Flat race form books with the LTO Race value written over the top of the first 6 in the betting forecast. Tis a good excersise and an eyeopener especially when you study the ones that are say 3 times or more the value of the others in the forecast.the ones that win the ones that lose One particular flat year made a 200 point LSp by backing will nilly as above when there was just one in the forcast with the 3 times the prizemoney rule IT was a fluke though In those days no one ever mentioned the words drop in class I can remember cursing when VDW appeared splashing similar stuff over the back page of the Handicap Book. |
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Jedi Knight Member ![]() |
I think so WP. 1,235 up in distance, but only 800 down in distance. EDIT: BC got it WRONG - 1235 were down in distance; 800 were up in distance (I realise there were 2,965 running same distance). The reason I am surprised is that I would have thought it was more usual for a horse to run over longer to improve its stamina, that to be run over shorter to improve its speed. Just my thoughts... EDIT: It would appear that thought is correct then! Cheers for the Amazon ref - I've just nabbed one. BC ![]() This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat, |
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Hi Boozer, You've reminded me of something, so I've just dug it out. Investor was very keen on race values too. He said: 1. Selection must be top 3 AR LTO 2. Selection's AR should be 40+, and 20+ clear of nearest rival 3. Must have won most valuable race of all runners Better go and do some work now I suppose. ![]() BC ![]() |
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Hi Walter
You are quite right. Just double-checked. I was reading it wrong. Nothing new there then eh?! Thanks for pointing it out. BC ![]() |
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read peach note from NUMBERS GAME FORM A PICTURE and method 4 from your book wattie ,well well well
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The Vital Spark Member ![]() |
I have these books and have found them extremely useful.
However modern handicaps have a much more compressed weight range so the opportunities to explore large saddleweight variations seldom now exist. On the otherhand the universality of the OR has made the evaluation of class far simpler and more accurate. So whilst one change has closed some doors the other has thrown open others. If you understand that these raters of a generation ago were successfully exploiting differences in class then one only has to adapt to modern conditions to do the same. |
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Are you referring to OR ranges oppossed to Penalty values John?.
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Late in replying, I was at the hospital yesterday. No it wasn't the mental hospital, and i didn't see poor old Investor!
Black Cat, Well done with 50% strike rate. That's the minimum needed at those prices, I'd say. I hope you've identified the decisive factor; it seems deciding correctly whether to go in or no is what's helping your method. ---- Re the mirrors; Neptune (Close 3rd to KS in Gold Cup) is out tomorrow at Punchestown. --- Re Google; don't! SCROOGLE instead. You'll get the same results but without all the crap. |
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