quote:

Originally posted by walter pigeon:
Brighton
BN2 9XZ TEL 01273 603580

Left handed. Undulating downland course, mainly downhill over the final mile. Low numbers favoured up to a mile.

This description agrees with the CD Systems matrix that Mtoto gave.

However, if you look at the RP picture of the course, it appears to be uphill from 1M4f to 1M, undulating from 1M to 5f, downhill from 5f to 4f, then uphill to the finish. Or is it my eyesight?

BC

There is a steep hill at the finish, but I'd say it wasn't more than one and a half furlongs long. The impetus from the previous 4f negates much of that for most horses.

Thanks to all for some more interesting and , in some cases, contradictory points.

I thought Bc's excerpts were particularly useful. Although I am one of those who can't be fkd with poring over the writings from the mythical vdw character, I'd conclude that whart BC has highlighted fits better with Vincent's views about the mirrors.

However, it does seem that JohnD is one of the few persons in the world who reckons he understands and uses "real vdw", perhaps we should all continue to be mystified by the endless lack of clarity and fudging that exemplifies the whole shabang.

When asking who else can offer good insights re trainers intentions etc, I would have thought that JIB would be a great contender - and also far more "real" than this fictional vdw laddie.

I bow to the superiority of johnD's library of writings about racing, but I cannot agree his view that vdw
"knew a deal more about racing than anyone else I have come across in a long, long time in the game."

Personally, I am convinced that several trainers and headlads know AND Practice far more in actual reality than this fictional character from some chancer's pen ever did.

Just my opinion: keep up the good work, please.

I thought this thread was decicated to VDW rated races but nobody ever seems to put their head over the parapet
Much to early for VDW on the Flat but here is a G Hall key type race IMO. (I took adjusted Topspeed as my 2nd ratings to confirm the platform along with RPR):
Castlemartin Gladness Stakes 4.15 Curragh
Stars
5 Honoured Guest, is this the O'Brien 2nd string?
4 US Ranger, can handle heavy going
3 Jumbajukiba, improver with a stiff task today
3 Major Cadeux,looks the best of the Brit challenge
1 Captain Marvelous
1 Crooked Throw
0 Excelerate
0 Leading Grace
0 Grecian Dancer

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jack,

quote:

Originally posted by Jack:
I thought this thread was decicated to VDW rated races but nobody ever seems to put their head over the parapet

Hi Jack,

In April, I have posted the following here on this thread:

Inglis Drever - 3
Kauto Star - 2
Celestial Halo / Binocular (dutch) - 2 & W (not backed though)
Tidal Bay - W
Don't Panic - 2

There is still much for me to learn (course info, speed figs, race times, etc). However, I find that...

"With a sensible staking plan, the method works well for me".

Do you know any good books on the subject?

Keep up the good work Jack. I agree that it would be good to see a few others putting selections up too.

BC

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Sean

Several trainers and head lads might know more about their own horses, but how much do they know about anyone else's?
The whole essence of VDW is in finding horses that are trained and placed to win.
That might be just one horse in a race, or several, but, whether you believe it or not, he gave us tools to identify which are which and, used and understood properly, make a great deal of difference to how one looks at a race. Some trainers and head lads might even know the proclivities and readiness of some of the other horses in the race, but they aren't going to tell us, so we need to find out for ourselves, and the tools VDW supplied are a great help to some in so doing.
Course configuration and pace are only part of the story - though enough to make considerable inroads - but VDW gave us more in that one sentence than many understand in a lifetime of betting (Witness, this and other racing forums) and shows a depth of knowledge of how to read form unmatched in any other publication I have read. Once again you may not think so, others obviously do, hence the level of interest 30 years on. Maybe you're right, and all those others are wrong, but then again, maybe not?

"
The whole essence of VDW is in finding horses that are trained and placed to win."

Thanks, johnd.

I can understand your statement there.
However, the problem for me would be that, as I think you point out yourself, there may well be several of these in a race.
I have been led to believe that VDW stated that there is but ONE winner in a race. If we cannot see this outstanding winner, then there is CONFLICT and we should forget the race. NO bet.

Elsewhere, there is talk of DUTCHING, which, imo, is fair enough, but shows at once a weakness in the first idea about there only being one winner.

Anyway, I feel I may be making a little progress, so when I spot what I consider to be a suitable race for this sort of thing, I'll offer a selection ( just for the craic!).

Today's flat card ( Monday)offers nothing suitable, imo.

I am sure Anybody is capable of narrowing the field, that is not the problem with VDW
Extracting the winner from the 3 probables is the problem


VDW tells us if we cant extract the winner from the 3 probables and are stuck maybe he (VDW) thought we were more conversant with form than is actually the case

Then a couple of sentences later he shoots himself in the foot by saying

Its a complex subject

quote:

Originally posted by boozer:
I am sure Anybody is capable of narrowing the field

Hi Boozer,

I'm really not so sure that's the case!!

In the past, I've seen some extraordinary "selections" given as potential VDW bets, by contributors who from the way in which they wrote appeard to be intelligent, sensible people.

And "no", I'm not going to name names. My WW2 helmet has enough bullet holes in it.

As for making the final selection, VDW also wrote:

(pg 37 TGY) "For those unable to balance the factors it would be well if they stuck to the class horse (highest ability rating) and then only when all other factors support it as in the illustrations".

and

(pg 16 UWOF) "To isolate the 'class/form' horse can often prove a tricky problem, but some stick out like a sore thumb and it is these which should have support".

BC



PS - Johnd - thanks for the information on Brighton. That confirms that matrix. Cheers. The RP illustration was very misleading!!

I see your point BC

But

If its so easy I cant see why we havent an abundance of winning selections posted as examples (even after the race)
after all VDW did call it an elementary method of finding winners

had a look at todays 3.30 at winsor where RED SOMERSET took my eye its 2nd lto were it won smooth headway 3 out,shaken up to lead 1 furlong out drew clear readily in a 64 ability rated race now a 51 and richard hughes back on must have a good chance today what do the vdw,ers think

quote:

Originally posted by boozer:
If its so easy I cant see why we havent an abundance of winning selections posted as examples (even after the race)
after all VDW did call it an elementary method of finding winners

Hi Boozer,

That is also a good point. All I can suggest is have a go yourself. Does it matter if you get it wrong? It's only cyberspace - and you may learn something from feedback. That's what I'm doing anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by les henderson:
...RED SOMERSET ... what do the vdw,ers think

Hi Les,

"VDWer". Isn't that any of us that try to use the method?

Anyway, (for what the opinion is worth of one who gets it wrong more often that he gets it right), RS is not one for me. Personally, I use RPR ratings, which don't lend support today. I like "sore thumbs". Not my own of course... 'cos that hurts!

Tommy Cooper clip was great by the way.

BC

Les im busy working on other stuff so have only managed a wee glance.
He has run at the track a couple of times before no joy - according to the post he is not well drawn in 4 does that matter here? - his highest winning mark at 5yrs now is 74 - runs of 82 today, his 5l win on good to firm - good run and suggests he is better than his current assessment granted similar conditions- good to soft today but has run ok with cut before - F/cast 12/1 in Racing Post trading around 7/1 someone thinks he will run well -trainer /jock ok at track.Pressed for time so dont have a chance to look at the opposition which is the important part for me.

yes trans siberian could be anything cole in good form

If I had to have a bet, it would be Novikov.

was,nt to hard on red somerset not eye catching but worth another look next time out

He`s down to run at Newbury on the 19th les but would have his work cut out to figure there, never saw the race today would you say he was ridden with an eye to the future?.

yes

maybe on a bit firmer came through but did,nt pick up half furlong out but was,nt hard on it

So today was`nt the day then?.