paul, pipe[father] had a habit of getting his horses ready on the day and that was that they were seldom seen to much effect again there is somthing about pipes big handicaper wins i,ve noticed they like to get them ready with weight lto ,comply went from 11st 12lbs lto and he also had the cesarawich winner that went from 10st to light weight to win it won at 16/1 i backed it but cant remember its name can anyone help

Heros fatal ,Miss fara?

yes miss fara,dont know but did the other horse carry a big weight before collecting for pipe?

quote:

Originally posted by johnd:

quote:

Originally posted by paul:
BLACKCAT
comply or die WHICH WOULD BE HES BEST TRACK HE WAS BRED TO STAY AND GALLOP, SURLY AINTREE WOULD NOT BE HES BEST TRACK.

Particularly over 4.5 miles of the much stiffer Grand National course than the sharp 2m Sefton which Celestial Halo ran on??
FFS Paul, give it up.

BC

You might find the RP summary of the race helpful?

"This time round however, the Triumph winner Celestial Halo looked to have more on his plate in theshape of BINOCULAR, who was taking on his own age group once again having beaten all bar Captain Cee Bee in the Supreme Novices' Hurdle last time out.
It had not always been the plan for him to go to Cheltenham, and had connections stuck with their original route and bypassed the festival in favour of this race, he would have been unbeaten in three starts over hurdles this season, with the last performance in particular especially taking. Although he raced a bit keenly early on, he was soon travelling well when hot on the heels of the leader and his rider bided his time patiently before taking it up at the last, winning easily. The different tactics here, where his main rival was in front of him, suited this speed horse, whose jumping looks to begetting slicker with each start. Initial quotes after the race of 12-1 and 10-1 about him for next season's Champion Hurdle with Coral and William Hill respectively were shortlived with the pair going 9-1 and 8-1. He still has plenty to find on Katchit, but if he continues to go the right way, he could emerge as a real contender next year.
Celestial Halo now has a pair of ones and a pair of twos next to his name after four starts over hurdles. His previous defeat was blamed on him being undercooked, but it would be hard to blame this reversal on anything else other than coming up against a rival who on the day was better. A smart middle-distance performer on the Flat, there remains the suspicion that despite his win in the Triumph he will still beseen to better effect over further".

JOHND
Sorry, but what is it exactly you think i should be giving up.

I MUST ADMIT THOUGH JOHND YOU ARE OPENING UP MORE KNOW, your summing up of how celestial halo got beat, because it came up against a rival who was better on the day,wow know that was original.

That celestial halo must be some horse though , because i have never seen a horse that can play cards before (pair of one's and a pair of two's)

down in weight for distance races,down in class for the short races,should that be a rule of thumb?

quote:

Originally posted by Regal Exile:
Hi Guys,
Just some further food for thought re CELESTIAL HALO, was he really not suited to the flat speed track that is Aintree? as he did equal his best Topspeed figure in defeat, also Raceform/Racingpost comments describe him as "hard driven" during his Triumph Hurdle win, would VDW have seen this as evidence of having a hard race and a reason to leave alone next time out?
Cheers RE

RE

Any horse that makes all at a good pace on a stiff course on g/s ground, and still has to be hard driven to assert is unlikely (nay certainly?) to be suited by a sharp track?
Until everyone takes the significance of how he performed previously on board, they are not reading form as VDW intended - nor will speed figures give them the answers they seek.

BC

It is indeed confirmation of what both the flat form and the jumps form already tell us; Binocular was unlikely to be suited by a stamina test whereas Celestial Halo was. Why else would connections feel Aintree was a more realistic target for B than Cheltenham?
How horses are raced and placed is a vital part of the method, yet still ignored by some (Who should know better?) because a horse produces a telling performance in the wrong circumstances?

Paul

A serious question!
How old are you, and how long have you been involved in horse racing?

Johnd

You've been extremely helpful. Many thanks.

BC

quote:

dont know but did the other horse carry a big weight before collecting for pipe?

No Les

something like 7st-5 to 8st

JOHND
You are obviously getting frustrated so i will leave you in peace,but there will always be more questions then answers.

Part 2:-Types of race tracks U.K.

Flat Racing Tracks (35)

L/H Galloping
Ayr, Bath, Doncaster, Haydock, Newbury, Newcastle, Nottingham, Redcar, Yarmouth, York.

L/H Tight
Brighton, Catterick, Chepstow, Chester(very tight), Epsom, Lingfield(turf & polytrack)(very tight), Pontefract, Southwell(fibresand A.W.),Thirsk, Warwick, Wolverhampton(fibresand A.W.).

R/H Galloping
Ascot(stiff), Beverley(stiff), Carlisle(stiff), Leicester(stiff), Newmarket (July & Rowley), Salisbury, Sandown.

R/H Tight
Folkestone, Goodwood, Hamilton, Kempton, Musselburgh, Ripon, Windsor (fig 8)(very tight).



Jumps Racing Tracks (41)

L/H Galloping
Aintree (G.Nat.course), Ayr, Cheltenham(stiff), Chepstow, Doncaster, Haydock, Hexham(stiff), Lingfield, Newbury, Newcastle, Uttoxeter, Warwick, Wetherby, Worcester.

L/H Tight
Aintree (Mildmay), Bangor, Cartmel, Catterick, Fakenham(very tight), Fontwell (hurdles), Fontwell-chase (very tight), Kelso, Newton Abbot, Plumpton, Sedgefield, Southwell, Stratford.

R/H Galloping
Ascot(stiff), Carlisle(stiff), Exeter(stiff), Hereford, Huntingdon, Leicester(stiff), Ludlow, Sandown, Taunton, Towcester(stiff), Wincanton.

R/H Tight
Folkestone, Kempton, Market Rasen, Musselburgh, Perth.



The fences are tough at Aintree(nat.tr.), Ascot, Cheltenham, Haydock, Huntingdon, Kempton, Newbury, Sandown.

Class of tracks.

Grade 'A'
Aintree, Ascot, Cheltenham(jumps), Doncaster(St.Leger meeting), Epsom(Derby), Goodwood, Haydock(jumps), Newbury, Kempton(jumps), Newmarket, Sandown,York.

Grade 'B'
Ayr(jumps-Scottish National meeting), Chepstow(jumps), Chester(May meeting), Doncaster(1st March meeting & late October meeting), Epsom, Haydock, Kempton, Lingfield(jumps), Newcastle(jumps), Wetherby(jumps), Wincanton(jumps).

Grade 'C'
Ayr(September meeting), Chester, Doncaster, Huntingdon(jumps), Leicester, Lingfield(turf), Newcastle, Newton Abbot(jumps), Redcar, Ripon, Salisbury, Stratford(jumps), Thirsk, Warwick(jumps), Worcester(jumps), Yarmouth.

Grade 'D'
Ayr, Bath, Beverley, Brighton, Carlisle(jumps), Catterick(jumps), Chepstow, Exeter, Folkestone(jumps), Fontwell, Leicester(jumps), Market Rasen(jumps), Nottingham, Pontefract, Towcester(jumps), Uttoxeter(jumps), Windsor, Wolverhampton(jumps).

Grade 'E'
Bangor, Carlisle, Cartmel, Catterick, Fakenham(jumps), Folkestone, Hamilton, Hereford(jumps), Hexham(jumps), Kelso(jumps), Lingfield A.W., Ludlow(jumps), Musselburgh, Perth(jumps), Plumpton(jumps), Sedgefield(jumps), Southwell,Taunton(jumps), Warwick.

Racecourses Their Characteristics & Location



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Ascot
SL5 7JX TEL: 01344 876876

Right handed. Flat course is stiff and a golloping track. Draw advantage: when going is good or faster, low numbers slightly favoured on the straight.


National Hunt course has slight uphill finish and is a good test of stamina


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Ayr
KA8 0JE TEL:01292 264179


Left handed. Flat course undulates slightly, easy turns suitable for gallopers in races up to 7 furlongs, low numbers favoured


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Bangor
LL13 0DA TEL:01978 780323

Left handed. National Hunt course is non undulating with tight turns


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Bath
TEL O1225 424609

Left Handed. Downland course on fast draining ground is galloping track considered by many professionals to be unfair.Low numbers favoured up to a mile.


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Beverley
HU17 8QZ TEL: 0142 867488


Right handed. Tough uphill finish puts an emphasis on stamina, stiff. High numbers favoured up to a mile


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Brighton
BN2 9XZ TEL 01273 603580


Left handed. Undulating downland course, mainly downhill over the final mile. Low numbers favoured up to a mile.


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Carlisle
CA2 4TS TEL: 01228 591827

Right handed. Flat course is undulating but uphill over the last 5 furlongs makes it a stiff test. High numbers favoured up to a mile. National Hunt is also stiff, uphill over the last 5 furlongs


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Cartmel
TEL 01539 536340


This National Hunt course is undulating with tight turns and suitable for handy types of horse


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Catterick
DL10 7PE TEL:01748 811478

Left handed. Dual.Undulating .


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Cheltenham
GL50 4SH TEL: 01242 513014

Left handed.Undulating National Hunt course it has easy turns but has a very stiff uphill finish.


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Chepstow
NP6 5YH TEL 01291 622260

Left Handed.The smallest and tightest flat course in Britain, is virtually on the turn throughout. Horses must be able to act on the course. Low numbers highly favoured in sprints.


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Chester
CH1 2LY TEL 01244 323170

Left Handed.The smallest and tightest flat course in Britain, is virtually on the turn throughout. Horses must be able to act on the course. Low numbers highly favoured in sprints.


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Doncaster
DN2 6BB TEL 01302 320066


Left handed. Flat course has easy turns and suits galloping horses. Draw not significant since drainage. The National hunt course is also flat and galloping.


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Epsom
KT18 5LQ TEL: 01372 726311


Left handed. Flat course undulates, horse must be able to gallop downhill. Low numbers favoured exept when soft ground favours high numbers.


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Exeter
EX6 7XS TEL: 01392 832 599

Right handed. Undulating National Hunt course which has tight turns and long straights, suits handy types


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Fakenham
NR21 7NY TEL 01328 862388


Left handed. This National Hunt course is tight, only 1 1/4 miles round and undulates. Handy types prosper


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Fontwell
BN18 0SX TEL 01243 543335

Figure of 8. This National Hunt course has tight turns and is suitable for handy animals


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Folkestone
RH7 6PQ TEL: 01342 834800

Right Handed. Flat course undulates slightly and has tight turns.Low numbers favoured on straight course. National Hunt course also undulates has tight turns but easy fences.


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Aerial Photos

Why not produce a aerial photo of your favourite racecourse, enter the post code of the course you wish to visit and Get Mapping will produce an aerial Photo of the race course. You can use Get Mapping to produce an aerial Photo of anywhere you like, such as your home or your business.


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Goodwood
PO18 0PS TEL: 01243 755022


Right handed. Flat. This course undulates but has easy turns and suits galloping horses


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Hamilton
ML3 0DZ TEL:01698 283806


Right handed. This course undulates and suits handy well balanced horses. High numbers favoured in races of 5-6 furlongs.


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Haydock
WA12 0HQ TEL 01942 725963

Left handed. Flat course is flat and has wide turns. Low numbers are favoured in races of 6 furlongs to a mile. National Hunt course is also flat and suitable for galloping horses the fences are refuted to be very stiff.


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Hereford
HR4 9QU TEL 01981 250436


Right handed. National Hunt. Non undulating with easily negotiated turns


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Hexham
NE46 4PF TEL:01434 606881

Left handed.National Hunt. This course is undulating and has a stiff uphill finish which places an emphasis on stamina


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Huntingdon
PE18 8NN TEL 01480 453373

Right Handed. National Hunt. Level course with wide easy turns which suits long striding gallopers.


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Kelso
TEL: 01668 281611


Left handed. National Hunt. Undulating fairly tight course with a long run in


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Kempton Park
TW16 5AQ TEL 01932 782292


Right handed. Dual. Flat course is just that. Sharp bend into straight. High numbers preferred in races coming around this bend. National Hunt course is fairly tight


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Leicester
LE2 4AL TEL 0116 271 6515

Right handed. Dual.Flat course undulates but has a stiff uphill finish but has wide turns and favours galloping horses. National Hunt course favours animals with stamina due to that finish.


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Lingfield Park
RH7 6PQ TEL:01342 834800


Left Handed. Dual. Turf and All Weather.Flat course undulates with slight downhill into the straight. Low numbers favoured up to 1 mile. National Hunt course is undulating


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Liverpool/Aintree
L9 5AS TEL 0151 523 2600

Left handed.National Hunt. The Mildmay Course is conventional but tight. The Grand National Course is one of the toughest jumping tests in the world and galloping


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Ludlow
SY8 2BT TEL: 01981 250052

Right Handed. National Hunt. Flat course criss-crossed by 2 roads.


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Market Rasen
LN8 3EA TEL 01673 843434


Right handed. National Hunt is flat with sharp turns and favours handy types.


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MUSSELBURGH
EH21 7RG TEL:0131 665 2859


Right handed. Dual. Sharp flat track, suits moderate speedy types.


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Newbury
RG14 7NZ TEL: 01635 40015


Left handed.Dual. Flat course is ultra flat, wide and suits gallopers. High numbers favoured up to a mile. National Hunt course is flat with easy turns and stiff fences


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Newcastle
NE3 5HP TEL:0191 236 2020

Left handed.Dual. Flat course has stiff uphill finish. National Hunt course is galloping with stiff fences and an uphill finish


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Newmarket
CB8 0TG TEL:01638 663482


Right handed.Flat. Both courses (Rowley & July) are golloping with testing uphill finishes. No draw advantage.


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Newton Abbot
TQ12 3AF TEL 01626 53235

Left Handed. National Hunt. Flat with tight turns


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Nottingham
NG2 4BE TEL:0115 958 0620

Left Handed. Flat. Favours galloping horses. Draw favours high numbers in sprints.


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Perth
PH2 6BB TEL 01738 551597


Right handed.National Hunt. Course is flat with easy turns and a long run in.


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Plumpton
TEL 01273 890383


Left handed. National Hunt. Undulating with short turns favours course specialists.


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Pontefract
WF8 1LE TEL 01977 703224

Left handed. Flat. Undulates and is longest course in the UK. Has a sharp finishing bend and last 1/2 mile uphill. Draw favours low numbers in sprints.


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Redcar
TS10 2BY TEL: 01642 484068


Left handed. Flat. Flat throughout favours gaolloping type. High numbers favoured on straight course.


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Ripon
HG4 1UG TEL 01765 602156


Rightt handed.Flat. Sharp course with a tight turn. Low numbers favoured in sprints.


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Salisbury
SP2 8PN TEL: 01722 326461

Right handed. Flat. Uphill finishing stiff course. Draw favours high numbers in races up to 7 furlongs.


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Sandown
KT10 9AJ TEL 01372 463072


Right handed.Dual. Flat course is uphill for last 3/4 mile and is a stiff test for galloping horses. National Hunt course is stiff with testing fences.


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Sedgefield
TS21 2HW TEL 01740 621925

Left Handed. National Hunt. Undulating with sharp bends and a long run in.


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Southwell
NG25 0TS TEL: 01636 814481

Left Handed. Dual. All weather flat racing. National Hunt on turf is flat with sharp bends.


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Stratford
CV37 9SE TEL: 01789 267949


Left handed.National Hunt.This course is flat with sharp turns.


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Taunton
TA3 7BL TEL 01823 337172


Right handed. National Hunt. Flat course with a sharp run in.


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Thirsk
YO7 1QL TEL: 01845 522276

Left handed. Flat. Has tight turns but doesn't undulate. High numbers favoured in sprints, low numbers in races of 7 furlongs to a mile.


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Towcester
NN12 7HS TEL:01327 353414

Right Handed. National Hunt. Undulating with a very stiff uphill finish. Tough test of stamina.


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Uttoxeter
ST14 8BD TEL:01869 562561

Left Handed. National Hunt. Slight undulations with sweeping turns suiting long striding horse.


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Warwick
CV34 6HN TEL: 01926 491553


Left handed.Dual.Flat course is tight and suits handy types. Low numbers favoured. National Hunt course is on the turn throughout.


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Wetherby
LS22 5EJ TEL: 01937 582035


Left handed. National Hunt. This course is flat with easy turns.


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Wincanton
BA9 8BJ TEL 01963 32344

Right handed. National Hunt. Mainly flat course with wide easy turns.


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Windsor
SL4 5JJ TEL: 01753 865234


Figure of 8.Dual. Flat course is flat with easy turns. High numbers favoured in sprints. National Hunt course is sharp and constantly turning.


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Wolverhampton
WV6 0PE TEL:01902 421421


Left handed.Allweather Flat with easy turns.


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Worcester
WR1 3EJ TEL 01905 25364

Left handed. National Hunt. Flat with easy fences and long straight.


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Yarmouth
NR30 4AU TEL 01493 842527


Left handed. Flat. Very flat with tight turns.


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York
YO23 1EX TEL: 01904 620911

Left handed. Flat. Very flat with wide turns, ultra galloping track with no draw advantage.


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Racecourse Location

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Click here for more details on Racecourses.

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Goldenmall Home Racing Home Page Racing Diary Racing Results Text Results Racecources Racecards Staking Plans Alternative Betting System Types of Bet Ready Reckoner Statistics Contact Page Racing Tips Privacy Policy Gamblers Page

Probably the most thorough course info ive seen at

http://www.ukracinginfo.com/content/view/14/27/

simply click on course info and then again on the track your looking for / sample.

Ascot Racecourse
Address:
Ascot Racecourse
Ascot
Berkshire
SL5 7JN

Tel: 01344 876876
Fax: 01344 628 299

Website: www.ascot.co.uk
Email: enquiries@ascot.co.ukThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it


Course Details

Flat:
Right-handed triangle, galloping and stiff, with few undulations, Just over 1m6f round, with 2 1/2f run-in. Straight mile and round mile. All races up to 7f on straight course.


National Hunt:
Right-handed, galloping, with stiff fences. Circuit 1m5f.



The Ascot round course is a right-handed, triangular circuit of fourteen furlongs, with a run-in of 21/2 furlongs. There is a straight mile course, over which the Royal Hunt Cup is run, and the Old mile course which joins the round course in Swinley Bottom. Fundamentally, the characteristics of Ascot remain unchanged by the redevelopment undertaken in 2005, though
the straight mile course was moved back forty-two metres, slightly altering the position of thewinning post. In addition, the racing surface on both the straight and round course was new in 2005, and the road crossings were removed. All races shorter than a mile are normally decided on the straight course. From the mile-and-half starting gate the round course runs downhill to the bend in Swinley Bottom, where it is level, then rises steadily to the turn into the straight, from where it is uphill until less than a furlong from the winning post, the last hundred yards being more or less level. The straight mile is slightly downhill from the start and then rises to the five-furlong gate, after which there is a slight fall before the junction with the round course.

Despite the downhill run into Swinley Bottom and relatively short run-in from the final turn, the Ascot course is galloping in character; the turns are easy, there are no minor surface undulations to throw a long-striding horse off balance, and all races are very much against the collar over the last half mile. The course is, in fact, quite a testing one and very much so in soft going, when there is a heavy premium on stamina. In such circumstances races over two miles to two and three quarter miles are very severe tests.

DRAW: Since the track was relaid, there has been a perceived advantage for those drawn low on the straight course at times, but results have refuted a strong bias. On the round course, in recent seasons a low draw hasn't proved difficult to overcome in races over a mile or more, even in largish fields (runners often race wide when the going is soft).


Most Successful Trainers 2002 to 2006
Trainer Wins Runs %
M. Johnston 34 189 18
Sir Michael Stoute 23 139 17
R. Hannon 19 235 8
M. P. Tregoning 15 53 28
Saeed bin Suroor 15 89 17
J. H. M. Gosden 12 101 12
J. R. Fanshawe 11 66 17
M. R. Channon 11 196 6
A. P. O'Brien, Ireland 9 71 13
A. M. Balding 9 83 11





Getting There

By car: (For great car hire click here.)
Ascot Racecourse is situated approximately 45 minutes from London by car or train and easily accessible from the M3, M4 and M25 and Heathrow airport.

From London and the North: M4 Junction 6 onto A332 Windsor by-pass and follow signs to Ascot.

From the West: M4 Junction 10 onto A329(M) signed Bracknell and follow signs to Ascot.

From the South and East: M3 Junction 3 onto A332 signed Bracknell and follow signs to Ascot From the M25: Leave at junction 13 onto the A30 (signed Bagshot), then join the A329 and follow the signs to Ascot.

From the Midlands: M40 southbound, Junction 4. Take A404 towards M4 (Junction 8/9). On the M4 head towards Heathrow/London. Leave M4 at Junction 6 and follow A332 Windsor by-pass to Ascot.

By TrainFor great fares click here)
There is a frequent service to Ascot from Reading and London Waterloo. The average journey time is 27 minutes from Reading and 46 minutes from Waterloo. Regular services also run from Guildford. The railway station is a seven minute walk from the racecourse.



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Walter

Useful stuff, but there are quite a few errors notably: Pontefract is not a sharp course, and they have repeated Chester's profile for Chepstow, which is a very different course.
As a general rule of thumb, the larger the circuit the stiffer the stamina test so courses like Newmarket (both), Newbury, Pontefract, Ascot, York and Cheltenham would favour strong staying types, over anything but sprint distances.
Conversely, tight tracks such as Chester, Perth, Ludlow and Aintree would always favour the speedier types, the logic being that tighter circuits break up the pace much more than larger tracks.


Edit
Though the one you have just put up for Ascot is brilliant.

walter your a font of knowledge well done,must admit only went with this kind of thing half arsed,only looking at it at the extreams,chester,epsom,newmarket,pontefract,never though about trainers sending out horses on courses that the configuration was all wrong,is this common or very common,knew that aintree was a good course for ex flat horses where they could stetch out,almost never back horses to win at aintree and cheltenham

Yes a few of them cant seem to agree, the last site looks promising though.

.

Pity the rest of them dont go into the same detail bit of an anti climax.

does the form from the big tracks stand up better than the rest? ie going down in class and class of track

WALTER WELL DONE SIR

walter your a font of knowledge well done,must admit only went with this kind of thing half arsed,only looking at it at the extreams,chester,epsom,newmarket,pontefract,never though about trainers sending out horses on courses that the configuration was all wrong,is this common or very common,knew that aintree was a good course for ex flat horses where they could stetch out,almost never back horses to win at aintree and cheltenham
Posts: 428 | Registered: July 25, 2006




Id imagine its fairly common les, but some still win despite the trainers best efforts.You asked about a horse Geojimali a wee while back when he was due to run at Musselburgh.He`d won over c/d previously but it was always going to be difficult for him over the sharp 5f from his draw that day given his style of running and as it turned out it was just as well as he clearly was`nt off.He is not straight-forward this one and has his quirks (bit like myself) but i`ll be disappointed if the trainer cant find an opening for him soon as he`s been in walters notebook for a wee while now and im still waiting for ma wages.