if as you point out that had been the case then i totally agree with you but as i have already explained both my source and motive then you can surely see my point of view.
judging from your last post you are claiming sole credit then for the 80/20 are you?
max.

I am claiming full credit for the hours of work I had done in compiling that list.

If anyone else has done something similar then they deserve credit for the time and work they had spent on their own list too.

what you are forgetting is the hours of work you put in are the result of someone elses hours of work,no matter how you dress it up when two people compile a list of statistics they ineviatbly arrive at the same conclusion because it is not an original idea but just a collation of available data.
you only had to look at the jockey/trainer standings in the racing post at the end of the last season to be well on your way to coming up with your own list.
did you do this?if you did then you should be congratulated for your initiative but do not think for one moment that it was an original idea,the concept has been a topic of conversation for a number of years with slight variations on the list as trainers/jockeys come and go.
max.

Hi MAX

With regards this list, i would be interested in seeing it, can you e-mail it to me as you suggested and anything else that was deleted.

Cheer's Kis

[This message was edited by kis on March 17, 2002 at 04:39 PM.]

Dear Max/Gummy
Max
As one who's copied and pasted all you have posted on this thread i take it by what has been said you have no objetion to this being done.???

Gummy
I have also copied and pasted of other threads in this forum is this OK or should one ask first (if so WHO ??)
was

>>what you are forgetting is the hours of work you put in are the result of someone elses hours of work>>

Excuse me? are you saying I copied the data from someone else? My database is my own thank you. It has cost me an absolute fortune in time and money over the past dozen years. The figures I produced are my own work and I have every right to protect it.

One thing you are forgetting as well is that the list of 80/20 contenders is dynamic. As the start of the flat produces some results some jockeys will drop out of the list, some new ones will appear.

Do you still want to include Jason Weaver in the list? Will you never include Graham Gibbons in the list?

My data constantly monitors the 80/20 contenders on a rolling basis going back over xxxxx time period and uses an xxxx weighted basis. This is MY interpretation of how to use it based on MY knowledge of racing and mathematics of 20 years using MY formulas.

Whilst the article you have in your possesion does indeed indicate the 80/20 positions for the 2001 turf season it was just for that - the positions at the near the end of the 2001 season, it will soon be out of date.

And yes anyone could compile exactly the same information using the results from the RP or Horses in Training or any results guide. But that will never be upto date.

On my racecards I indicate the latest 80/20 contenders each week. I am not aware of any site anywhere in the world that is doing this.

Would you like to copy it without permission and claim that anyone could do it with a dog eared copy of The Sporting Life guide to the flat 2002

Ok All,

Seems to me that this is little more than "thats my toy and your not playing with it"
Come on stephen, i cant see Max posting up a list and trying to take any credit for it, if it was not his own work. As i see it as Max posted up the list for the good of the board and thats it, no need to go over the top.

Kis

stephen i respect the work that you put into your great site but your last post does seem to confirm what i have already said.
with regard to your point concerning how up to date the list is i would say that allthough it will obviously have a shelf life up to the end of this season it will be beneficial and relevant to further posting on this thread where in the great vdw tradition we will not be asking any jockey this season to do anything that he/she found beyond themselves last.

i do agree with kis that this matter should now be put to bed as i think both of us have made their point clear enough and bickering over what happened last season is not going to help anyone.
max.

Hi All,

I've posted this up , as this is the list that MAX posted up but made a mess of the board, as gummy puts it, in the hope that it can be read by all.

TRAINER 20% LIST in descending order of flat wins 2001.
j.dunlop,m.johnston,r.hannon,b.hills,sir m.stoute,
t.d easterby,e.dunlop,m.channon,a.berry,j.m bradley,
Bj.meehan,m.tregonning,j.gosden,h.cecil,d.nicholls,
M.jarvis,p.cole,d.loder,mh.tompkins,m.bell,d.elsworth,
W.haggas,aj.perrett,p.harris,g.butler,m.reveley,j.fanshawe,
r.charlton,i.balding,j.noseda,sir m.presscott,g.wragg,
m.w easterby,tg.mills,j.goldie,n.callaghan,w.brisbourne,
b.hanbury,l.eyre,s.woods,l.cumani,s.bin.suroor,la perrett,
k.a ryan,k.burke,pd.evans,r.hollinshead.br.millman,ap.jarvis,
A.bailey,ra.fahey,ej.alston,sc.williams,ga.swinbank,
Np.littlemoden,c.brittain,jg.given,r.guest,ap,o'brien,w.muir,
J.w.hills,b.a.macmahon,j.j.quinn,j.hetherton,j.a.glover,p.j.makin,
J.a.osbourne,i.a.wood,r.m.whittaker,h.candy,w.jarvis,k.t.ivory,
I.semple,b.smart,g.c.bravery,g.l.moore,b.palling,r.m.beckett,
J.akehurst,n.tinkler,t.d.barron,m.blanshard,s.dow,a.reid,g.wall,
G.margerson,h.morrison,j.spearing,j.w.payne,w.g.m.turner,d.w.barker,
lydia pearce,r.f.johnson-houghton.

JOCKEY LIST 20%-flat wins 2001 in descending order.

k.fallon,k.darley,t.quinn,pat eddery,l.detori,r.hughes,d.holland,
J.spencer,r.hills,s.sanders,w.supple,f.norton,g.duffield,j.fortune,
R.winston,t.durcon,m.hills,j.fanning,s.drowne,d.o'neill,f.lynch,
B.doyle,j.carroll,p.robinson,g.carter,k.dalgleish,c.caitlin,j.mackay,
m.fenton,w,ryan,m.dwyer,craig williams,p.dobbs,p.fitzsimmons,
P.hannagan,d.sweeney,i.mongon,r.mullen,c.rutter,m.roberts,
M.kinane,d.mckeown,i.williams,p.doe,s.whitworth,m.tebbutt,
d.mernagh,j.weaver.

Ok Gummy if this has worked can you please delete your list so as we can have the board back as it should be?

Cheer's Kis

WHY HAS THE SCRIPT ON MY SCREEN GONE 10 FEET WIDE

EVERYTHING ELSE IS OK, JUST PAGE 3 OF THIS THREAD

MAX im following your lessons and if the 80/20 is part of your teaching then if it,s not allowed on this thread then if possible i would like it e-mailed to me please
regards florence

FLORENCE

The 8/20 lesson is on this thread just happens to be in 2 parts Max's definition and the trainer/jockey list.

Three Legs
this page is as it is because of GUMMY'S posting we are just waiting for him to remove it as requested so as this page will come back to it's proper size.

Cheer's Kis

PS,
MAX, As donny is this thursday will we be all ready to follow your dutching plan then.

[This message was edited by kis on March 17, 2002 at 08:00 PM.]

Thanks for that KiS,

I can understand why interested parties hold their particular views on this recent spat. My two pennth worth wouldn`t help.

I made a short post about the 80/20 principal (Pareto`s law) on 16 Oct last.

I copied it (Whoops) from an excellent book I have.

If anyone is interested it`s ISBN 1-85788-167-2
"The 80/20 Principal"
Richard Koch.

It`s a real eye opener, it can be applied to almost anything you do in life. Well worth reading.

Max

As usual, thanks for the last lesson and would you please send me your email address. I`m at: guyfawkesfan@aol.com

I`d be obliged also if I could have email address`s for: Q, Swish and KIS.

Yours 111
.

kis thanks for the message
threelegs can you remember the bookshop you bought it from i would like to buy it
max thanks for lesson 4
regards florence

Dear 111,
Just click the little envelope at top of this message to e-mail me
Swish

re your last post-i have no objection to you copying anything from my posts.you can stick it where you like i have no interest in any other board its just this one i care about.if you can build a reputation for yourself on another second rate board on the back of my postings then good luck to you.
just remember though you have to have the knowledge to back up your statements when the ineviatable questions from interested parties follow.
it reminds me of a story at our local zoo a while back.they had taught this chimp to colour in simple pictures,the only one who could grasp the job in hand,the keepers were very impressed with the chimp and deceided it would be a good idea for the clever chimp to teach the others but try as they might the chimp could not manage it and went back to scratching its arse and swinging on its tyre.
max.

Sorry cannot find 5furlongstogo.co.uk. Is this the correct address? If not canwe have AW Stats posted on this paGE

morris

try 5furlongs.co.uk instead

FLO

80/20 book not now on the shelves. Take ISBN number to any good bookshop, smile nicely, ask them to order it for you £16:99

Or order it on line if you know how, I don`t.