quote:

Originally posted by BlackCat:


Finally, a message to G.Hall. I can lend you the bus fare back to Lincoln if you like. It must be rather cold thumbing lifts at this time of year.

Ta very much, but I've got a bus pass

No recommendations for a good moss-killer then?

John,

I really think you are reading far too much in to all of this ˜secret society' business, and you are wide of the mark regarding AlanBs motives for posting on here, and indeed elsewhere.

Those involved in the small VDW forum, for which I have been a member for less than a week, share a passion for horse racing analysis in an enviorment which they want to protect. What is wrong with that?

Regarding my own situation, other than one member informing me a long time ago that it existed, I have never been approached to join. It was me that contacted AlanB via PM on TRF in response to a question that he asked me on the forum. It was merely to put him in the picture that given the heavy-handed approach to moderating I wasn't prepared to contribute to the pages. I had noticed, like everyone else, that he'd been actively trying to trace VDW and so I asked how the research was going, and he promised me that once it was completed he would let me have a copy of the evidence in return for my opinion/conclusion, just as he would with several other people. Once again, at no point did he, or anyone else, contact me regarding joining the forum.

Last week Alan forwarded to me the evidence, which again is 100% conclusive as to his identity and that, barring having millions stashed away, VDW did not capitalized on the information contained in his writings.

It was at this point that Alan, after me bringing it up in email discussion, and in light of my comments regarding his evidence, invited me to join the forum.

So, this active scouring of message boards in order to recruit members for a secret society forum, which you have suggested, is simply pie in the sky fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

AlanB is probably the most dedicated VDW follower I've come across and should be thanked for bringing the information he has worked hard to get in to the open for those who have an interest in the subject to make their own opinion.

The reasons for not making the information public have been stated and to my mind are completely right.

Whether you wish to believe what has been said is a matter for you to decide, however, your assumptions regarding AlanB's integrity, in my opinion, hold no water.

Lee

can I join that forum you mention?

I've lots of positive input to offer...given the chance

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:
Can anyone recommend a good moss-killer? Got to be cheap though.

It's not for me, it's for my wife's vaginal thrush. Terrible it is, reaches right up to her navel

I do apologise as it has just sunk in, and I got "humility" misunderstood for "hilarity"

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:
No recommendations for a good moss-killer then?

No. Although a "Moss Publications" killer may now be in development.

Hi John

Thanks for replying.

Again, I'd like to comment on things from your post.

"Here we have a group of people, or the nucleus of it, that decided they didn't want to share their thoughts with the rest of us".

The reason for that has been given, and is understandable. I don't think it is desirable that a man who is probably in his late 80's or even 90's (correct me if I am wrong with that assumption) should have his details made available to all and sundry. He has told some fibs in some horseracing pamphlets, not been a member of the SS.

" and, (specifically and clandestinely), formed their group almost entirely from this board's membership. Obviously this had a detrimental effect on this forum, (28 members initially, as I recall),"

I am only aware that Fulham was involved in forming a group. Mtoto I don't know about. I don't think Old Timer, JIB or Lee went AWOL though did they?

" but they showed no respect to either ethics or loyalty, and acted purely in their own selfish interests".

Unfortunately, there has been no consistent moderation on this board, and in particular this VDW forum. I laughed out loud at Gummy's comment earlier. "I will not put up with open arguments on the forum". There has been a constant stream of argument and abuse down here that has gone ignored. I am not talking about debate. I mean argument and abuse. So, I can fully imagine what caused the defection.

"Since that time, their posts on this board have either been sporadic or non-existent, nor have they posted on any other open board, except to farm more members".

Again, you are wide of the mark. EVERYONES posts on this board have been sporadic or non-existent. Just look at the state of the forum. Rosie and Old Timer are keeping things ticking over elsewhere. I can also tell you that Mtoto, JIB, Lee, Fulham and Old Timer have been posting on open forums – and there has been no farming, as you call it. The reason I know they haven't been farming is that I WOULD have joined!!

"Given the history of that group, it should be patently obvious that they do not have the interests of this forum at heart, so it is hardly surprising that their sudden reappearance followed by their 'great revelation' was greeted with more than a little cynicism by those of us who had remained loyal".

John – are you saying that Old Timer does not have the interests of this board at heart? You have a view of Fulham that is tainting your view of the whole, and you are making accusations that are simply neither true nor fair. And whilst I am on the point, your view of Fulham is, in my view, completely wrong. But that is just my view. What is FACT is that Old Timer has been a main stay of the Gummy forum who, along with Rosie, has kept the board ticking over during times where pretty well no one else was posting. Quite frankly, you are out of order here again.

"Fair enough, their claims were backed by some who you would normally trust, but that trust is naturally tainted, by association with the above group if by nothing else".

No, again you have written the word "group" when you mean "Fulham".

"There is also the fact that not one of these worthies have given us one shred of evidence to back up their claims. Now, if the evidence is so damning and so comprehensive, then why cannot one single person amongst them do us the common courtesy of demonstrating so? There is no need to name names, in fact if that evidence depends entirely on the name of this mystery person, I would suggest it is questionable anyway but, if their motives are anything of the order that you suggest, then why is that evidence being so doggedly withheld from us?"

Dealt with this a couple of times, including above. All I'll add here is to say that my understanding is that by giving us the evidence it will expose an elderly man to who-knows-who. Unless there is a dramatic turn-around, you ain't going to see it. You've got to get over it and deal with it.

At the end of all this, you will have to decide for yourself whether you believe the witnesses or not. But whether you believe them or not, you need to get to a point where you can move on. It is of no use to yourself or the board for you, (or anyone else for that matter), to continue to snipe at Hensman or any of the members of the identity revelation group.

It is interesting to note that Fulham selected people who, as well as a great interest in the works of VDW, have demonstrated a certain level of maturity in their postings. Which brings me to my final thought, which is this: why wasn't I given it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BlackCat:

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:
No recommendations for a good moss-killer then?

No. Although a "Moss Publications" killer may now be in development.

That is VERY witty. Perhaps we should set up a double act.

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:
Can anyone recommend a good moss-killer? Got to be cheap though.

It's not for me, it's for my wife's vaginal thrush. Terrible it is, reaches right up to her navel

My My My,

Too much information

Lee

Thanks for the reply, at least it clears a couple of points up.

BC/Lee

No matter how you skirt around it, it is plain that this 'private club' drew most (all?) of its membership from this forum, and to its detriment.
It is also clear that it was not done in the open and honest manner that befits a bona fide interest group, but by a stealth which was openly boasted about at a later date. Those who engineered that deception are now the ones you are asking us to trust?
As for their farming other forums, ask yourselves why they suddenly appeared on TRF, - and addressed each other as complete strangers? Either they were deceiving each other, or members of that forum - either way, hardly the conduct of a group acting in the best interests of the host forum? As it turns out, they were given short shrift by that forum, hence their return here.
Add to that that the perpetrator of this initial deceit returns to this forum posing as another, a position he clung to until his true idenity beacme readily apparent, and I would say that there are very reasonable grounds for doubt, both about the motives for returning, and the message they purveyed.
None of this questions the integrity of either Lee or OT, though it is fair to say that any member of that group's judgement may have been coloured by their previous association. Even so, we are not given the opportunity to make up our own minds, but asked to accept what others tell us, others that have admitted their own errors of judgement in now questioning much of what has been written in the past?
AS it is now obvious that we are not to see, just asked to believe, can any of you honestly say that the evidence stands up without this mystery person being named and, if so, why none of it is made avialable?

quote:

Originally posted by johnd:
BC/Lee

No matter how you skirt around it, it is plain that this 'private club' drew most (all?) of its membership from this forum, and to its detriment.
It is also clear that it was not done in the open and honest manner that befits a bona fide interest group, but by a stealth which was openly boasted about at a later date. Those who engineered that deception are now the ones you are asking us to trust?
As for their farming other forums, ask yourselves why they suddenly appeared on TRF, - and addressed each other as complete strangers? Either they were deceiving each other, or members of that forum - either way, hardly the conduct of a group acting in the best interests of the host forum? As it turns out, they were given short shrift by that forum, hence their return here.
Add to that that the perpetrator of this initial deceit returns to this forum posing as another, a position he clung to until his true idenity beacme readily apparent, and I would say that there are very reasonable grounds for doubt, both about the motives for returning, and the message they purveyed.
None of this questions the integrity of either Lee or OT, though it is fair to say that any member of that group's judgement may have been coloured by their previous association. Even so, we are not given the opportunity to make up our own minds, but asked to accept what others tell us, others that have admitted their own errors of judgement in now questioning much of what has been written in the past?
AS it is now obvious that we are not to see, just asked to believe, can any of you honestly say that the evidence stands up without this mystery person being named and, if so, why none of it is made avialable?

OK John, have it your way.

If there is to be no healing, then in all probability this VDW forum will go back to the empty place it has been for the past few months.

quote:

Originally posted by Delilah:
My My My,

Too much information

Forgive me Delilah, I just couldn't take any more.

quote:

Originally posted by G.Hall:


That is VERY witty. Perhaps we should set up a double act.

I'll change my username straightaway to A.Chambers of Kent.

What do you think: "The Hall & Chambers Christmas Show"

A QUESTION FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE

Why are the rest of the members on this board not allowed to see the evidence,
and
why are we not trusted to see the evidence

Thank you
Paul

Paul,

If you will refer back to one of my earlier posts on this matter, the evidence for the conclusion consists of some 2MB of scanned copies of documents, which could not physically be reproduced on this or any other such forum.

Oldtimer

Oldtimer

Could the more important documents not be sent one at a time or in suitable sized batches.

quote:

Originally posted by Old-Timer:
Paul,

If you will refer back to one of my earlier posts on this matter, the evidence for the conclusion consists of some 2MB of scanned copies of documents, which could not physically be reproduced on this or any other such forum.

Oldtimer

OT

With due respect, it is a poor excuse for not showing any of it?

Roughyed,

The release of the documented evidence would mean revealing the person's full name and current address, plus other very personal details.

As others have pointed out - and I personally agree - this would be far from advisable given that the subject is now elderly and has indicated his wish NOT to come into the public eye again.

I think that even Fulham is now having second thoughts as to how much should be revealed in the book that he intends to publish; a book I might add that is based on many years researching VDW and his methods and started in the belief that VDW was already dead.

Here, I will ask a question. Would you, or any of the others with an insatiable desire for details wish the personal details of your life to be slashed across what is virtually a public Internet forum?

It is perhaps ironic that all this has come about because JIB believed that he was was doing everyone a favour by breaking the news that the originator of the letters to the SCHB is indeed still alive.

It is also poignant to consider that the only person to have suggested him already deceased is Tony Peach in the publication of his booklets on VDW.

Whether he is dead or live, or indeed whether he made a fortune from gambling is immaterial. The main point is that what he wrote contains a very deep insight into the racing of horses, from which some have been able to deduce more than I. Indeed I am sure that there are a fair number of people who are making a living off what they have gleaned from the words that were written.

They are able to do this because they have put in a lot of HARD WORK to get to the stage they are at, and continue to do the same to remain at that level.

For those that believe that it's just a matter of simple arithmetic and applying a magic 'key', dream on. Nothing in this life is for free and you get out what you are prepared to put in.

I have tried to be patient on this thread and only answer points that I in all honesty could just not let pass without some sort of explanation.

However, even my patience is coming to an end, as more and more continue to request the fruits of the time and money (yes money!) that someone else has been prepared to expend in their long search for the truth.

I can understand the disappointment of some that they were not asked for their opinion on the initial data, but like any investigative writer Fulham was merely bouncing off others his initial conclusions.

The people he chose, not unreasonably, were those that over time had proven to him to be people of integrity who would be prepared to give him an honest answer after consideration of the facts provided.

In conclusion, I would reiterate that it is what was written that is important, not whether the writer is alive or dead, or whether he personally made a fortune from racing.

Most of what has been posted on this thread is more to do with clashes of personality and petty jealousies. I can live without that, but are others so egocentric that they must always be right?

Oldtimer

OLDTIMER SEASONS GREETING'S

OLDTIMER I REFER TO YOUR LAST POST.

As others have pointed out - and i personally agree - this would be far from advisable given that the subject is now elderly and has indicated his wish not to come into the public eye again.
INDICATED HIS WISH NOT TO COME INTO THE PUBLIC EYE AGAIN. Does this mean Fulham has personally spoken to vdw or received a personal letter stating this was vdw's absolute and final word on the matter.
Thank you
Paul

All
Just a little bit from me with ref to all of this,having figured out (I think) the essence of VDW I believe his way of getting down to a couple of good choices in a race which you can be sure will put up a good show which in my view is a good thing when I consider what horses I used to pick it was money down the drain but with his ideas it stopped me going for horses that did not have a chance, this way I keep my head above water and don't back in every race so i'm greatful for him in respect of showing me an easier way of advancing with horse picks which has saved me a few bob
thank you VDW