JIB / Epiglotis,

Reviewing yesterday's postings I'm not convinced about the "tests" you're employing. A summary of the argument seems to be

1) Select and analyse the 2 most valuable races from the day's main card
2) Select and analyse the most valuable race from other cards

If you can't find a selection in 20% of races analysed you're doing something wrong. In truth VDW suggested he backed about 20% horses that he thought would WIN. You're implying a selection should be found in every race analysed but the literature doesn't suggest this is the case. Indeed VDW was clear that any race about which there were doubts should be left alone.

JIB,

Given your stated position regarding VDW it seems unfair that you're acting as judge, jury and executioner. You're prepared to condemn VDW on the basis of personal selections which, I believe, pay only lip service to the ideas VDW put forward. Unless Lee is a hundred year old Dutchman his consent doesn't make Coracon a bona fide selection. A look at the examples reveals it is highly unlikely VDW would have backed a filly on her third run. Needless to say the same arguments can be made regarding selections I might post.

My point is I think the "research" proposed by yourself and Epiglotis represents "experimentation" designed to confirm your own beliefs. A lot of, supposedly independent, scientific research is funded by parties with vested interests in the results. Would you choose a car manufacturer to fund / perform "independent" research into environmental damage caused by emissions from combustion engines? You could, but I'd suggest the result would be a foregone conclusion.

Regards

Carlos

SHADES OF GREEN looks like a nicely placed horse in the 5.20 Yarmouth

I'm on at 4.5, good old betfair

Ive got my doubt`s that the real Lee is on board at present only Gummy would know for sure through the IP address.

Carlos,

Lee is the acclaimed vdw guru on this forum. As you can see WalterP is so distraught he thinks it must have been an imposter.

There are now over 700 pages of this thread, in its two forms, and as yet no one has managed to demonstrate a profitable use for the methods it espouses.

Throughout this mammoth carcass some very fine brains have taken the trouble to explain in some detail why the methodology goes wrong, if you've read the booklets the gummy threads are a must.

quote:

Ive got my doubt`s that the real Lee is on board at present only Gummy would know for sure through the IP address.

is that because Lee has put some losers up?

come on, thats a bit silly..everyone gets losers Walter.

there's been a lot of talk these last couple of days on here but no winners posted by the expert gurus....even I have managed to get one..though supposedly I know nothing about racing and haven't the brain to comprehend the "complex" vdw methods.

Come on VDWers, lets see some meat on the bone

ENJOY THE BUZZ in the 9.00 at brighton looks difficcult to beat to me. 3.55 to beat a load of rubbish thats up against it, looks nice

I'd just like to say that the above post by Ectoo was posted by an imposter..it must have been because the horse lost

see what I did there?

and how f ing stupid it looks

Would`nt say i was distraught jib, curious would be more accurate.

JIB,

I've got some of the background on the thread, there's now 900+ pages. I've encountered a Lee but have only read up to page 180 (2002) so far. Also read all of this thread but ID's change and there's lots to be read. Not up to speed, but Gummy seemed keen on new members posting and this is my main area of interest.

I'm looking forward to getting through the old thread, could do without the bitching but as you say there's plenty of knowlegable posters. I'm always open to ideas and will be surprised if I don't learn plenty about racing in general as well as VDW. I hope it proves to be the essential read you suggest.

Cheers

Carlos

Carlos,

It is unique.

The 'bitching' you refer to is testimony to the sincerity of the posters opinions.

quote:

but as you say there's plenty of knowlegable posters

is that based on the number of winning selections?

or is it based on people being good at waffling?

discussion should be encouraged..but at some point it needs to convert in to a selection process that delivers what is promised..imho..it never does.

Ectoo,

Don't assume I was only referring to the VDW posters.

Don't assume I'm inferring the pro VDW mob are all rubbish either.

JIB,

I sort of agree but some of it gets a little too personal, not sure I've read the worst of it yet either. Racings about opinions, but uninformed abuse (generally no one knows many solid facts about other posters) isn't opinion. I'd like to think I'd stop at "heated" debate, hope that I'm not proven wrong.

Regards

Carl

No one going to put up a race for us to look at tomorrow?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john in brasil,

Sandown 3.45

However not being a disciple, it's probably not right!

My selection: True VDW, No bet Gun to head - Bigalos Bandit

John

Have you noticed since Gummy insisted on, pre race selections and no aftertiming, how quickly the posts from the gurus have dropped off?

Could be a coincidence.

A nice solid pre race VDW selection is a rare beast.

Busy day and only have time for a brief look at the racing so no bets. 3:45's a tricky race but Jewel In The Sand could start this season, like last, with a win at Sandown.

Carlos

Ectoo,

You're probably close to the mark with your "rare beast" remark but all punters are different. Some like the cut and thrust of daily action, some prefer a more conservative approach. Surely everyone's best off adopting the approach which best suits their personality. Personally I can't stand loosing runs but each to their own.

Regards

Carlos

The other VDW board has people posting horses in the best race of day etc. Here many top races go by without a dicky bird..but only since Gummy made the rule about pre race selections and no aftertiming.

Basically those that hobby on hot air, no selections etc..have run out of steam.

it's a different game posting horses in real time before they run..sorts the wheat from the chaff

on the other forum people don't mind posting losers as they don't seem to brag about their supposed success at horse racing..on here the ego level and kidology of supposed knowledge is so high that the only way to preserve the image is to make sure you don't post many selections..so not many losers..that way you can be a guru and patronise those that are deemd as not in the knowledge.

it's kinda of a sad mindset..but thoroughly exposed on this forum now.

blah blah..i know the "way"..i make losts of money..but won't post selections or it will expose my REAL level of knowledge.

John and a few others know what I'm on about