and do happen to understand a little more than the layman

oh do you?

before we start..you have nothing I want ..OK?..I know what you know..I can tell from what you post..you have NOTHING I need re racing..get that clear chap.

what does annoy me is when "laymen" post on this forum and ask for help and get F ALL from the likes of you..there is so much time and enthusiasm shown here by at least two posters wanting to "learn" about this, I don't know why but that is their choice.....what do you do?..treat them like plebs.

You are not a nice helpful person..you are snide, selfish and gloating arse. In all the time on boards I have ALWAYS helped people when asked..you on the other hand help NOT ONE PERSON.

you make me sick John..I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYONE LIKE YOU THINKS OF ME..in fact if you liked me ..I'd be f ing angry.

but don't be coming all superior about yourself to me ..I have you sussed chap..you will not kid me on.

Why don't you look at yourself and what you contribute..F ALL..bar for a bit of self congratulation for doing absolutely nothing but posting your odious drivel.

Don't bother replying to this..I won't waste time on people like you anymore.

I have taken the liberty of reproducing the following excellent post by Cabbie from another part of this forum. While I couldn't agree with everything he says, it is an abject lesson to those who see VDW as some great mystery, in just how far one can go using just cold unemotional logic.


how i give my understanding of the VDW METHOD

i will only go a bit at the time and see what your thoughts are

first of all

one of his ideas was only bet consistent horses

was he saying in the horses last 3.4.5 races if so then my thoughts are wrong

i say he ment consisent under the race conditions of the day

say the race today is a 10 fur race going is good the class of the race is claas c

now if we profiled the race we must be looking for a horse or horses that meet these conditions

we may be left with 3 horses and i will assure you that VDW did dutch he could not have got a 80% win by only betting on one horse

that is what he ment by consistent race conditions

some times a horse will only have the race conditions about 6 times in his life and thats what we have to find

forget prices and what people say bet what you believe in

to give you an idea

a light weight boxer in his range of contest he becomes a champion but put him in 3 weights up he is an also ran

thats my theory on consistent

going dist class if the horse has form on these conditions then he is marked down for a likely winner dont forget we are betting in handicaps

where all horses in theory should all finish in a line
so it stands to reason if conditions suit some horses then they must have a better chance than other horse that dont like the conditiond
Posts: 1551 | Registered: March 28, 2002

Cabbie
Member

posted May 10, 2005 09:41 PM
i have not mentioned the VDW METHOD BEFORE because i know it upsets a lot of people

it seems the VDW EXPERTS DONT PUT THERE SELECTIONS UP BEFORE THE RACE

i have studied his ideas and have got ideas from B.J.HEALY ALAN COLDRICK TONY PEACH JOHN BINHAM

IF YOU THINK OF VDW NAME ITS A DUTCH NAME C.VAN DER WHEIL

ITS A CLUE TO HOW HE BET A DUTCH NAME SO HE DUTCHED

MY PERSONAL VIEW IS VDW IS MR TONY PEACH how i give my understanding of the VDW METHOD

NOW YOU CAN SLAG ME OFF

With thanks and apologies to Cabbie

"was he saying in the horses last 3.4.5 races if so then my thoughts are wrong"

Sounds a nice idea that also gives credence to We have a special way of adding up the form figures that only we who have studied know about brigade
He Stated THE LAST THREE placings
No mystery
No special secret way that only the gurus know about

Heres a extract from a different book published around 1973

. Since the quality of the form is now recognised as better class all round, we can award class consistency points for all of the last three races as follows: 50 points for a 3rd, 100 for a 2nd, 300 for a win. The contenders now get 50 points for every pound less being carried compared with the weight in its previous race, and minus 50 for every pound more, up to 5lb. more or less, whichever is the case.
Horses are then noted as plus or minus depending on whether they have recent form or not. Horses dropped in class get a pius or minus depending on whether a change of distance is involved. Same-class animals may be eliminated altogether if required to run over a furlong more or less than the distance of its last winning race.Add up all your handicapping values and divide by ten. You'll get a simple rating to work from, and the plus and minus factors will help you decide the "strength".

Notice any similarities??

Walter
B.
If they do know anything and they tell you
they will no longer be indispensable

This message has been edited. Last edited by: boozer,

Cabbie has quite obviously given 'consistency' a little thought and realized that it can only be considered when applied to a horses winning distances, going and class.

What use would a sprinter be in 12f race?

I have a book called 'Trendhorses' which profiles certain horses over specific distances, goings and courses. By sifting through form figs that look like several international phone numbers you are often left with something that reads like 11213211 when the horse gets his ideal conditions.

Evening All,

Apologies about the username, but for some reason my original 'handle' has been revoked? Is there a reason Gummy?

JohnD,

Apologies for not being in touch recently but some strange happenings have been going on with my email address!

Mtoto,

I notice your son is very much a chip off the old block!

And how interesting it is that 'Fulham' has at long last shifted his stance regards the consistency rating. There's a glimmer of hope for them yet.

I trust know-one has backed anything at York so far, using the VDW method of course?

quote:

I trust know-one has backed anything at York so far, using the VDW method of course?

Is that all the meetings at York since 1975?..wouldn't think anyone has

Raikkonen looks interesting in the 6.15 at Clonmel tonight for those who follow the Irish racing.

Willie Mullins gelding has to carry 10lb more than when winning this race last year but he looked to win a shade cleverly then.

He's won his last 3 flat races and won a ladies handicap at Gowran carrying 10st 13lb last month. Since that he's proved his wellbeing further when finishing 2nd in a listed handicap hurdle at the Punchestown festival.

Charlie Swan's Ingres is the only one with a significantly better ability rating but that comes from a maiden win 2 years ago and he hasn't been running well in hurdles.

2nd fav Baron De Feypo was beaten by the selection last time at Gowran and I don't see him turning the tables. 7/2 looks fair to me.

Hello L33,
What was the original Username?

quote:

And how interesting it is that 'Fulham' has at long last shifted his stance regards the consistency rating. There's a glimmer of hope for them yet.

Has he, what's his view now? I dont go to the other board anymore after getting a less than friendly welcome.

Nat,

Fulham used to concentrate on the form part of the equation, if not ignoring consistency completely, paying little attention to it. He could have a c/form horse with the form figure of 001. He has found this not to be what VDW meant when he talked about consistent form. Being consistent doesn't make a horse a form horse, but a consistent form horse must have the consistent part of the formula.

I still think he is a great lose to this thread. Even if it is by setting the example of having to go back and re think when you think you have found the answer(s). Off hand I can't think of anyone how is more helpful when trying to explain how he thinks the whole thing works. He answers most questions put to him in an open and frank manner, the ones he doesn't answer he will often just say I'm not prepared to answer that. Go away and think about it give your reasons for thinking that, and we may discuss it at another time.

Lee,

Glad to see you are alive and well. If you have taken the trouble to re join hopefully you will be posting more often. Sorry to say I lost your e-mail address, I was going to contact you. The main reason for that was to try and get your thinking on this a/rating. I still can't see how it does what it says on the tin. My problem is you and Fulham maintain it is important. I can't get my head around how to use it, and I'm still not sure you both use it in the same way. I still can't see how it was used in the first few examples, I think it was a cross check.

Be Lucky

Hi All,
Quick intro as I expect this is the area I will be most of the time. One or two of you from the other board will recognise my user name.
I am very much a beginner with VDW but not with racing.
Will immediately admit failure to get to any real understanding with VDW - not with the basic methods which "seem" simple but with achieving any consistent success. Will keep working and look forward to (hopefully) patient responses to questions.

Gummy

I reckon it's Lee.

Oops - I see Mtoto has pointed this out above.

i hope it's someone with the balls to pick a selection before the race

otherwise it will just make sane people

quote:

Originally posted by Mtoto:


Fulham used to concentrate on the form part of the equation, if not ignoring consistency completely, paying little attention to it. He could have a c/form horse with the form figure of 001. He has found this not to be what VDW meant when he talked about consistent form. Being consistent doesn't make a horse a form horse, but a consistent form horse must have the consistent part of the formula.

I still think he is a great lose to this thread. Even if it is by setting the example of having to go back and re think when you think you have found the answer(s). Off hand I can't think of anyone how is more helpful when trying to explain how he thinks the whole thing works. He answers most questions put to him in an open and frank manner, the ones he doesn't answer he will often just say I'm not prepared to answer

Mtoto
I find your naivete astonishing at times!
it is no secret that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, but to call him helpful is beyond the bounds of credibility.
Please God, the person who has done more than anybody to damage this thread never helps me !
Also, do you seriously believe that post is from Lee?. My money would be on a twat like Barney.

Layertuk
Welcome to the forum, and I hope you find it useful.
Ignore Ectoo, he is just the thread hobgoblin looking for an ego fix.

JohnD,

It's all a matter of opinion, I can only speak as I find. He has always been helpful to me. I'm happy that you think I'm naive although I don't agree, much as I disagree with the folk that think I'm bloody minded, stupid, argumentative, and other nasty names. Naive, is quite a pleasent change.

There is no fear of the people who ruined this thread of helping you, or anyone, they haven't the intelligence. Although Fulham would be well down that list for me.

Actually, I do think that message was from Lee, don't for one minute think Barney would have the wit to see Fulham had changed his thinking. There again I could be wrong. I hope I'm not as Lee is one of the few who could help build this thread back up to somewhere near what it was. Helpful, informative, and at times a good interesting read.

Be Lucky

Re: L33

I thouight every new member had first to email Gummy with their particulars.

How come G doesnt know who he is?

At the moment I side with Jd in that L33 is an imposter (I speak from experience )

quote:

Since the quality of the form is now recognised as better class all round, we can award class consistency points for all of the last three races as follows: 50 points for a 3rd, 100 for a 2nd, 300 for a win. The contenders now get 50 points for every pound less being carried compared with the weight in its previous race, and minus 50 for every pound more, up to 5lb. more or less, whichever is the case.
Horses are then noted as plus or minus depending on whether they have recent form or not. Horses dropped in class get a pius or minus depending on whether a change of distance is involved. Same-class animals may be eliminated altogether if required to run over a furlong more or less than the distance of its last winning race.Add up all your handicapping values and divide by ten. You'll get a simple rating to work from, and the plus and minus factors will help you decide the "strength".

Boozer,

Taken from the book ˜Horse Sense' by Paul Major (thanks Mtoto). As you're probably aware this was an adaptation (loose one at that) of the American book ˜Professional Method of Winner Selection' by Lawrence Voegele, an excellent book I'd imagine if you were around in America in the late 60's early 70's. Interestingly Voegele places a lot of emphasis on what the horse does throughout the race, including the final stages. However, the ˜yanks' have a more systematic form guide showing a horses position at 4 different points throughout the race – a bit like our greyhound form – rather than race readers comments.

The adaptation is not a great book in my eyes, and I'm pretty sure it's what the 'Wizard Pro' method is based on, using the class of race course last time our to determined class of horse - eh?

Gummy,

I simply dropped in because my yahoo account has been playing up and I needed to make contact with John D out of courtesy for not replying to his email – Unfortunately this was the only way I could think to do that.

My original username was ˜Lee'.

Hooray, I guessed you were Lee, L thirty three!

I have also always found Fulham helpful, always been polite to me, As has JIB.

Now that's sitting on the fence for yer!!

Ignore Ectoo, he is just the thread hobgoblin looking for an ego fix.

given the choice between..KNOW NOWT/DAREN'T POST A SELECTION/DON'T EVEN TALK A GOOD GAME/SAD GRUDGE AGAINST A USERNAME ON A MONITOR/FCUKWIT

I prefer being the hobgoblin mesen

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ectoo,