quote:

there is no way he could have maintained the strike rates he wrote of

thats because he didn't maintain any strike rates..i bet you still believe fairy tales.

The VDW articles were ALL posted AFTER the races..a bit like me saying I've backed every winner this week..listing them all..making up rules for why I backed them..then get a load of gullible fools believing me.

you really are very naive John..which surprises me as you seem to be a reasonably sensible person.

One bet that is a CERTAINTY is that neither you nor Investor will put up ONE CLEAR selection today BEFORE a race..by the way..the fact that VDW states "racing certainties" shows it's very silly..there are no such animals.

It's time to stop talking about the past and show this method has some worth..lets see a selection..in fact..there is no reason why both of you can't put up selections..I don't give a monkeys about the "secret" behind them. I just get fed up with reading how good people make out they are who talk.. but can't do.

Thats all that matters..because if you can't do.. then anything you say won't ever hold any weight..not with me anyway. People who make out they can do this and that need to be able to demonstrate it..otherwise it's just hot air.

I've put threads up on here and shown profit..thats MORE than you or Investor have done..this shows me as a loser in Investor's eyes..lets just examine that logic..I put winners up..I'm a loser..you and Investor talk about the past..you are winners..only in this country could people convince themselves that is right.

You can reply in any way you like to this..but I can say clearly to you..I DON'T WANT YOUR SECRETS..I would like to discuss methods..but I won't be told I know f all by people that WON'T put up selections before races.

If you don't or can't make selections before a race then I assume you are scared too in case they do not show what you say they will.

Anyone reading this can make out they have backed only winners in the past..to me that is just a waste of the internet..just an ego bolster for people that haven't got much about them..are you and Investor like that..if you aren't then why are you SO desperate to keep pushing a method that doesn't work BEFORE races.

I have got 5000 methods better than VDW..that work ONLY after races..problem is if I posted them anywhere bar here I would get laughed at.

INVESTOR

you clearly state that DUBAWI is a VDW selection then????????

we are making progress

don't worry about 11/10..you can get much bigger than that..so that won't be an excuse later.

I hope it wins for you..would this be a maximum stake do you think?

DUBAWI is 6/4 on betfair at this moment..is that a value price do you think?

315 Nmkt 2000 Guneas 2005.

Arsehole's VDW attempt:

ORATORIO 200 3
DUBAWI 174 4

A nice short list.
It should be noted that, as neither has CD form as a 3yo, they both may well have been rejected by VDW.

If it is thought that Course and Distance with Group 3 winning form as a 3yo is important, then, perhaps, we would have to consider
Democratic Deficit.

It will be interesting to see what Investor puts up.

Seanrua
i have told no porkies at all.I put up horses that based on class and form were the ones in those particular races that were likely to produce the winner.I then left it up to everybody to see if there was anything that had the factors that would deem them a good thing.On the other forum i said that harchibald had a lot going for him but i wasn't prepared to plat at the price as Brave Inca was a live danger.I hope that is plain enough,In other words i didn't play in the race.

In the other race i has Asian Maze as the class form horse and that i would be surprised if the winner didn't come from one of the first 3 in the market.But because you haven't looked at past examples you wouldn't be sure when the factors or balance is evident.I'm not here to gain credibility i am more than happy with where i'm at,And i can guarantee you that i am very stable mentally just a little pissed of and frustrated with stupid comments that cannot be justified because those that make them lack understanding.

It does look as though, judged on profitability, NFP's method is streaking ahead of VDW.

A major problem is that " racing certainties" are hard to find on this thread.

Just checked the Irish tote PLACE return for ASIAN MAZE:

eURO 1.50

So we can say that, roughly, my ( mythical) £200 bet returned £300

less the two wasted, losing bets ( £10).

So a measly £90 profit bc i was too lazy to get off my fkn arse.

Today, we'll risk £100 place bet on Dubawi, and

£20 EW at 16/1 on Ontario.

I trust that's clear enough for most punters.

"Calm down, dear! Sister will be along later with your medication and Beano."

" Temperament is Key".

To Seanrua & Black Cat

This is WHY vdw methods are no use to either of you..thanks to the 3 followers who have clearly proven my point here

the non response..which is what I knew would happen CLEARLY shows that VDW followers do not have what is necessary to win any money..they lack the MISSING LINK..that is called BOTTLE.

It's no use studying for years if before every race that CLEARLY SHOWS A HORSE IS A VDW SELECTION..you daren't back it.

Not one of them will say it is a clear selection because they won't be able to use it in future discussions..and THAT IS THE ONLY THING THEY BOTHER ABOUT.

The pair of you need to stop bothering with this..you are too good to be wasting your time.

I don't care about those that keep coming on here bolstering their egos..you two need to get away from this spineless method .. this thread clearly shows is the main FLAW in this approach.

Not one of the disciples DARE post before a race because they KNOW they will be backing OVERBET, POOR VALUE horses.

Learn a lesson here..this is a aftertimers HOBBY..nothing more

VDWERS DARE NOT PUT UP CLEAR SELECTIONS BEFORE A RACE AS DEMONSTRATED HERE...WHAT USE IS THAT TO ANYONE?????????????

leave them to the dream world they live in.

You won't win without BOTTLE..they CLEARLY have not got that as they are happy to demonstrate here..BUT..about 4 o clock out of the woodwork they will come..safe..knowing the result..then they will puff up their feathers and tell you all why it was a selection..IF IT WINS..and why it wasn't if it loses.

Can you not see what a charade it is you two?????????

It's alright being arrogant after a race..being knowledgeable is shown before a race..not after..these people talk a good game and will suck people in to buying pamplets..those pamplets don't tell you that once you have read them that you will be shit scared to actually have a bet.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ectoo,

Ectoo
I very much doubt anybody who has studied vdw's methods will feed the likes of you.I gave my view and then it is down to those who are interested to see wether that view has any substance.I know what i am going to do based on facts in the form book.But i am not going to say now or after the race what my decision is.it must also be bore in mind that there are other races bar the 2000 that need looking at today so happy hunting.

thanks Investor

shit scared to have a bet or pass a CLEAR opinion.

the pamplets work then?

Leave it a bit wooly..a get out clause for later..very good idea..

quote:

I very much doubt anybody who has studied vdw's methods will feed the likes of you

I am trying too stop people getting started mate..this is a leaflet selling scam..no more. I don't care about the disciples..it's getting new people to stop wasting their tiime on this SCAM that is important to me

Leave it a bit wooly..a get out clause for later..very good idea..

PEOPLE WHO CAN'T MAKE CLEAR DECISIONS AND FOLLOW METHODS THAT WON'T EVER DEFINE A CLEAR DECISION ARE JUST DREAMERS.

THE MISSING LINK IS BOTTLE..THE PAMPLETS DON'T TEACH THAT BIT



VDW is a leflet selling SCAM

VDWERS HAVE NO BOTTLE

the last few posts on here demonstate that..

ask yourself what use is a method, if you can only use it after a race

ask what use is a method that turns you in to a self important, peddler of aftertiming pomp.

this thread shows what following vdw does to people.

know all about nowt before a race..scared..then brag afterwards..something lacking in people that need pats on the back for offering nothing of use except to themselves and their strange egos.

Ectoo,

This post has nothing to do with your ranting. I said in the week I would post on the Guineas, and I had every intention of doing just that.

As I said before I make this very tight and I'm not using the usual a/rating. I have Dubawi and Oratorio joint top rated. O taking it on further investigation, but that has nothing to do with money won. It is based solely on the class of the horses run against. Why should only winning form count when judging ability?

JohnD seems to think only the positives should be looked at, well this horse has plenty. Course will suit, best form of those in the race, great big race jockey, good trainer, going should suit. Are there doubts, yes? A lazy horse at home, will he be cherry ripe, who knows? He will be as fit as the trainer can get him, but is that enough? Has D, or any of the others improved over the winter?

Ectoo, a short price over backed horse I don't think so. Well, it wasn't when I backed it although I didn't get the 16/1 like Seanrua. Had to make do with 14/1, he was backed to win and place. The place betting has nothing to do with the win, it is a completely separate bet. All the horses back to win are also backed in place doubles as long as better than evens can be had.

If after looking at the race the decision had been D was the likely winner there would have been no bet. I don't bet unless I can see some value, and I don't bet just to get value. If a horse is 50/1 but you don't think it can win where's the value?

So to answer your question I think Oratorio is a VDW type selection, I think he will win the 3:15 at Newmarket.

Be Lucky

thank you MTOTO, I hope it wins for you

I did expect you to respond, it's the other two I am aiming at..I want to see what they are made of..I think I already know though...

I don't rant by the way..I flush out spineless arrogant people and show them for what they are..that sometimes involves "ranting" as you call it.

INVESTOR OR JOHN D WON'T MAKE A DEFINATE SELECTION SO ANYTHING THEY SAY AFTERWARDS IS WORTH F ALL.

My selection is FOOTSEPSINTEHSAND..which I think will be a cosy winner

Dubawi needs further imho..but I've been wrong before..but I am not shit scared to put a view up before a race.

Here are a few other races that will NOT be considered by Investor/VDW:

They ARE bets of mine:

155 Gdwd, Don Peter place

320 Thrsk, Rio Riva, Guadiaro, Sharp Reply - all to place

455 Nmkt, Colisay place.


Enjoy!

Mtoto
Under normal circumstances i would agree r.e Oratorio.Because this horse is in the field i will not be backing Dubawi and vice Versa.I wish you luck with your bet,The place side of it i feel you will pick up.But the win is by no means clear cut and Dubawi is fresh and has been prepped i dubai and he'll be ready for this.how do you view Oratario's defeat at the hands of Shamardal at the end of last season,This needs a good looking at.

EC,

I hesitate before posting this but I can't let your view that VDW is a leaflet selling scam go unchallenged.

Confession time, I joined this forum purely because I'd heard a lot about the VDW thread and my own methods are very heavily influenced by VDW. However after skimming through the thread I initially decided not to post here. The whole thread is a mix of nonsensical abuse and people puffing their chest out after a race.

I have no problem with people declining to post selections in advance, I've no real wish to myself but I can't see the point of coming back to crow about winners you've backed but not posted beforehand. It's simple really, if you don't want to post them up before then just leave it after they win.

You are very, very wrong EC about VDW's methods. I started to study the methods in real depth a year or two ago and once I'd found the hidden factor(s) then ALL the selections he gave conformed to pattern. A lot of people have put untold hours in trying to unravel the methods and the main reason they are just as profitable today is because they have stayed out of the public domain and nobody is going to change that.

I'm not an expert in VDW's methods but after a lot of hard work I have identified some of the factors that most (including some self proclaimed experts) have missed.

EC, you are one the very few people on messageboards that I have respect for and so I will make it my mission to convince you that you are wrong.

Before you put me down as just another crank, you and I go back a little further, I will try and convince you I'm not a crank by saying that I class myself as a decent 'handicapper' who recognises the need for speed in a horse just as you do

PS EC, are you still on the 'backwards' BT email?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Piston Broke,

Ectoo
i already gave a view,I am not prepared to play at the price is that good enough english.Vdw nor I play in every race only when everything is in the horses favour.I am not preare to take on Dubawi and i'm still not 100% sure that Oratorio is a form horse.That might sound crazy but it needs to be looked into.BUT O has to be respected on a class basis and i don't play when i have doubt in my mind.There will be many more CLEAR cut opportunities during the course of the season i fully expect Dubawi to win but i won't bet on it.

yes Piston Broke, same email

send me an email

I'm just trying to get people to post before races..thats all

===============================================

Investor

You are saying it's a no play race then?

But are you saying that Oratorio and Dubawi are the only horses that can win today?

Ectoo
What iam saying is that the 2 mentioned horse have the credentials that are evident to win this race.Rob Roy is a lightly raced horse and also a late 2 y old that possesses class.On a balance i would expect the winner to be Dubawi.There may be others better versed in the methods who would have no doubts whatsoever but i have hence i will leave the race alone.