The two forum/threads are rivals only in as much as they share the same name i.e. Van der Wheil.

However, in content there is no rivalry. This one wishes to develop new ideas. That one wishes to discuss the ideas of its namesake. Neither are right. Neither are wrong. They merely serve a different purpose.

However, there is one notable difference. The contributors to the new forum have not (to my knowledge) belittled the contributors of this one.

BC,

If you cannot defend your ideas, if your arguments fail to convince spectators, if you can only be right after the event you deserve pity if you are humble about your inadequacies, but scorn is your due meet if you try to pass them off with arrogance.

Your fellow members on this forum are some of the most helpful people I have had the pleasure to meet. If they take a dim view of certain practices I am inclined to the opinion that being such thoughtful individuals they have reasons for doing so.

If I remember correctly it was one of these 'victims' of 'belittlement' who made you pay £150 for a load of old form books. I' ve been a member of this forum for over three years now and as far as I can tell that is the only occasion I have witnessed such a transaction. In my own case some of the members you appear to be upbraiding have gone to the trouble and expense of sending me things that they thought I might find useful.

I dont have any difficulty at all in distinguishing those that seek to help and those that have less noble motives.

Mtoto/PKB

Thank you for contributing some hard cash - to the Gummy Forum

Dunno how that other thread is doing -

but this thread has clocked up 846 views in the last 9 days !

"PROGRESS" - with VDW - can still happen here !!

Hi John

But they are not here. The victors remain and the vanquished have fled. Must the Gummy warriers continue to hunt them down?

A wise old man, now deceased, once told me: "A victory over the defenceless is neither great nor memorable".

BlackCat
(Sh*t. What am I doing arguing with JIB? He'll eat me for breakfast).

BC

If you care to send me your current "Snail Mail" Address -

Then I will be happy to send you the "Latest" - Hard Copy - VDW - INFO - that I have sent to other "Gummy" Members !!

btw

-
It cost me - a damm sight more than "Investor" paid for his - bloody form books !!!



tc

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuppenycat,

Hi TC... you have mail!

BC

JIB,

I can only speak as I find. AlanB has been very helpful to me and other VDW followers. He has gone out of his way and at times at some cost to himself to help. I can't see that because I disagree with him about one item of VDW ideology I have turned my back on his methods. I use a different a/rating to him, not one I dreamt up by myself but one taken from the VDW literature. This rating as far as I can see can be used in exactly the same way as others use the more excepted one. So I'm using the same 30 year corpse as him. Just like everyone else I'm looking for the c/form horse, and the way I work is very much the same as him.

As you ask no I'm not that happy Investor is setting himself up as some sort of expert. There again Investor isn't happy with my interpretations of VDW, but who am I to put him down. He isn't the only one I have doubts about, but others that are well versed in VDW think the other chap is on the ball. If I'm wrong about one I could be wrong about the other. Either way it's not for me to run around bad mouthing them and just because they operate in a different way slag them off. If they have learnt nothing else VDW will at least stop them throwing money away without thinking about how they are betting.

JohnD,

I know there is little point in responding to your drivel, but I will in the hope that it will stop people thinking you are right.

I joined this forum when there were about 25 members. I joined because a chap called Marchwood had mentioned VDW. It was on a thread called 'on another site' I suggested it would be far better to start a separate thread as it wasn't right to talk about things from another site. Swish started this thread and I think I was the 2nd person after Swish to post on it. I think I worked quite hard to promote the site and thread. Along with others I had started a small VDW forum, all/most from that forum joined this one. There was no forcing anyone they just joined. The simple reason I joined this forum is the need for new ideas, small forums don't work because after a while everyone has said as much as they are prepared to say. Even the basic beginner can suggest something that hasn't been said before or make you look at something from a different angle, all forums need new ideas.

After a while the abuse started as it always does, and it wasn't jumped on as it should have been. I have absolutely no problem with constructive criticism in fact I welcome it for the same reason as new ideas. It got out of hand and people left, they weren't stolen, poached, or bribed. They simple got p1ssed off.

So John the stage is yours. It should be easy to show how it works, no need for the old form books. No need to look at the old examples, no need to confirm the ideas are right. Tell them any old bollox they will never know, if your really lucky you may even find a few winners. Name in lights saviour of the Gummy VDW thread, trouble is then you will wake up. Go on prove me wrong!!!!!

Valaramix

I think it is only fair to say I have never paid to join a forum and never will. I think if anyone should pay it should be the lurkers not the folk that contribute and make a forum worth reading. Have to say there was a time I would have paid to keep the VDW thread going but not now. If the thread had been kept clear of the abuse and anything not racing related fair enough. There are plenty of free forums for systems and general racing chat they must be making it pay.

If you are interested in VDW I'm sorry you left joining so late, I wish you well.

Be Lucky

Ive bet Kew Jumper today in the 3.30 at Wincanton.
Any thought`s on this race from a vdw persective.

Feb 10, a mundane bash at a VDW type selection on the AW!

Just a few points first. I've dropped the last 3 form figs totally nowadays and I haven't found results affected.

I find the "ability rating" based simply on win prize money divided by number of wins to be the most useful part of the methodology.

Then I start to deviate and " guess". I rate by speed figures, Course ans Distance, and value of race that must have been won within the last twelve months.

So here we go on a race that should probably not be used:

320 Southwell £13.4K C1 hcp 7f.

TE QUIERO
to beat
Glaramara and Cardinal Venture.

Walter: I think your race illustrates a problem with choosing races the VDW way. None of the runners has really done anything so it's difficult to meaningfully compare them. I think the 2:40 at Huntingdon is a better race and Home James a clear selection.

I like Meggies Beau in that race Epi if the ground takes a cut.

Hi WP

Are these a weak bunch for a class B event do you think? I wouldn't have found KJ, but I can see where you're coming from. imo, I'd agree that it's the one in that race. (currently 3.8 BF)

But I like the look of Jackson in the 3.00 (3.6 and bigger available last night, now down to 2.94)

I was on at 5.0 last night BC .

Walt

Lucky pin picked Osiris

Rab that`s the one im feart of.

Osiris is up in distance (from winning form). Three wins have been 2.0, 2.0 and 2.3. As a 10 y.o., wouldn't he have won over that distance by now? (Mind you, the competition is not great today imo, and was just held carrying wt LTO)

quote:

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Originally posted by john in brasil:
1. Your fellow members on this forum are some of the most helpful people I have had the pleasure to meet. If they take a dim view of certain practices I am inclined to the opinion that being such thoughtful individuals they have reasons for doing so...

2. I dont have any difficulty at all in distinguishing those that seek to help and those that have less noble motives.

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Hi John

I have thought about your post some more.

1. I have not said that the posters here are not thoughtful or helpful. Don't know why you posted that. My point was concerning the tone of postings directed at others who are not here to defend themselves.

2. Perhaps I do have a problem in seeing peoples true motives. I do tend to accept what is said as 'gospel', when in fact, anyone could write anything.

For example, Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code"... great novel (imo). I thought that all made complete sense and decided to look into it further. Then I saw a documentary on it which destroyed most of it's "facts"!

I am still the Black'gullible'Cat it would seem.

Anyway, I was just trying to make a point about the nature of posts - no offence intended. That goes for yourself, johnd, Boozer and whoever else may have been.

BC,

Do not worry unduly! I wasnt trying to say that you thought us mindless or unhelpful, I was trying to point out that by their conduct our fellow members dont really have the profile of 'mindless abusers'.

What always starts trouble on vdw threads is the insistance on its chief proponents in maintaining there is a secret key to finding winners and that they pssess its wonderful knowledge and are stuffing their pockets with cash every week because of its magic.

Some people need to believe in this nonsense, for whatever reasons, but to a lot of others, generally people who have been about and seen things, this is like the Emperor Diocletian when he tried to force the early Christians to return to Paganism.

Whilst on the subject of the Romans, their records make it quite clear that Jesus was an unmarried man with no children. If you study the lives of other revolutionaries you will notice that none of them go about their task dragging the wife and kids with them.

quote:

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Originally posted by walter pigeon:
I was on at 5.0 last night BC .

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Time to lay and make guaranteed profit!