Rab
You are pobably aware of this, but I will put it up anyway for those who aren't.
The draw on most racecourses is simply a matter of common sense, and can be easily ascertained from a study of the course map. These maps are avaialable on the Racing Post or Sporting Life websites; Boozer kindly sent me a much better guide which I would post up here, had I the computer skills, maybe he could provide members with the link?
Looking at the maps, any bend or deviation near the start invariably favours those drawn at the same side of the course the deviation takes, the nearer the deviation is to the start the more pronounced the advantage. For ease of understanding take 5f Beverley; (Sharp rt hand bend 1f from start). strong bias for horses drawn high, or on the right as they come out of the stalls, or Chester:5/6f (Sharp lh circuit), strong bias toward horses drawn low, or on the left as they come out of the stalls.
The bias is not as strong when the start is further from the bend or deviation eg Chester 7f or Southwell 7f, but still has a bearing even on gentle variations such as Thirsk 6f or Musselburgh 6f.
Draw advantage will often change with the going, or even where the pace is in a race, but, as a basic template, I have always found the above a useful guide.

Musselburgh should of course be 5f - astute of Investor to spot it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: johnd,

even more horse shit.

Perhaps Johnd's post is too complicated for someone who can only add up a few form figures.

Why don't you pop out and take some more photo's of buses Investor

I reckon that is within your compass

Investor
Was it the introduction of common-sense that threw you ?
You should try it with VDW instead of the tripe that Fulham has fed you!!!!!!!!

VDW attempt.

Irish Grand National.

MARCUS DU BERLAIS
Jack High
Numbersixvalverde.

Sean
-

Bloody - Brilliant !!!

tc

1000/1 forcast ??????

You'd have to thank VDW, TC.

I couldn't get the correct order or find the winner from the shortlist.

OK for dutching or combos, I guess.

How do Investor and Pakboy do it?
I take my hat off to them, for I'm fkd if I can see a standout winner.

There again, i haven't bought the ould formbooks, so this is as good as I can get, I suppose.

All this, and something like Alderney Place can't even get in the frame!!

Don' it make your brown eyes blue! I know it makes my bank balance red, whatever.

Funny old game.

'corse you can mate -

just wait till the bloody race is over - it will then be so bleeding simple , that it ain't true

quote:

Originally posted by Seanrua:
.

How do Investor and Pakboy do it?
I take my hat off to them, for I'm fkd if I can see a standout winner.

There again, i haven't bought the ould formbooks, so this is as good as I can get, I suppose.

As TC says, basically they don't, they just pretend they do.
If you want the old form books,I have most of them, they are yours for the price of the carriage, (2/3 boxes).
Be warned,though, that there are many who have spent years studying them, and, despite their various claims, haven't got a clue what VDW is really about. Some of the stuff by the self-proclaimed gurus on the other thread would make a novice cringe.
There are other ways!

Thank you very much, johnD; I appreciate your kind offer, which I must decline.

I don't think I can get any further with VDW - or maybe I just lack the temperament.

My feelings are that it can take us down to the blunt end of the pencil, but no way can it put a fine point on it.

The final sharpening is always a leap of faith, imo. It's take your pick ,and hope fot the best!

For instance, I know nothing about jump racing, but I expect a math kid could dutch the top 6 in the current betting for the Grand National, and make a profit.

Same kid could pick out and back the winner only,of course, but that event is far less likely.

As for the aftertimers, who in the name of fk do they hope to impress?

In similar vein, how the fk can your piece about the Draw get classed as horseshit?

It seems I've a lot to learn - as ever!

Whilst munching a cheese roll, I've had a bash at a VDW-style selection and came up with this:

4.45 Ponte - Danelor

has a recent run; 3rd lowest CR, 3rd highest AR backed up by RPM & TS. LTO ran over same distance in much higher grade losing by 4L. Solid trainer/jockey combination.

Main danger on the VDW platform would appear to be Dower House.

And just for a little bit of VDW sentiment thrown in for good measure: Settlement Craic is by Ela-Mana-Mou, who I think was mentioned in one of the VDW letters.

Paid nicely, BC!

Well done.

JohnD.

If you have the 84/85 NH Raceform book I would be more than happy to buy it. If you really have no further need for the form books I would also be happy to talk about a price. I have most of them but I now have a son who needs them, to save mine from being misused. If you are interested drop me a line.

Have to say i agree with Seanrua about your post on the draw. Anyone that thinks it's horsesh1t must have sh1t for brains. Don't know what that says about the people that think he's mustard on that other forum. On there he is trying to come over as the big I am and if you disagree with him look out. He and his secret friend have it sorted!!

Grundy

If you still look in my e-mails to you are being returned for some reason

Be Lucky

Nice to hear from you, Mtoto.

I didn't think I could be surprised any more , but your insight into the goings on at the other place was quite a surprise.

At first, I found Investor to be unusual but quite helpful.
Now, sadly, I have to conclude that there exists a gang of dossers with mental health problems.

Periodically, when high on medication, they gain access to the inmates computer and post whatever comes into their heads while under the influence.

It's gotta be the same few desperados that disrupt all the the racing message boards when they get the chance. It must be some sort of perversion that turns them on and gets them off.

It is very sad but it is a reminder that, even when results go against us, and the situation looks grim,that there are always some poor creatures who are worse off - probably through no fault of their own.

I wish I knew the remedy, but, alas, I doubt it could be found, were we to read a million old form books.

Seanrua,

Please don't misunderstand me I happen to think in the main that forum is quite good. Investor apart, he does seem to be suffering with some sort of attention deficiency. There seems to be a need to see his name in print no matter how bland or pointless the post maybe. Have to admit I'm sad that this forum didn't go on to it's full potential if it had it would have been very interesting. Just one example is the slight change in the way Fulham now works. It just goes to show no matter how much you think you know the need to revise your thinking must always be there. The main difference in the two forums seem to be the lack of senseless abuse. Agreed there are disagreements about how the methods should work and even a few that don't think VDW does work. There is a feeling that any abuse would be quickly jumped on and stopped that was sadly lacking on this forum. For me the main worry about that forum is the likes of Investor or Pro as he how likes to be known will take over and it will become full of useless posts that say nothing of any value. The highlight of his day is when Fulham agrees with him. However with the help of his secret friend, and I do hope it is secret, not imaginary, he is well on his way to riches and fame.

Be Lucky

Mtoto
It wasn't my intention to put the formbooks on general sale, I just thought Seanrua a particularly deserving cause.
However, I do have the 84/85 Chaseform, which I would willingly post to you on an extended loan. It would be yours to use as you will, but on the understanding that one day I may ask for its return.
If you agree to that small condition, my email address is on my profile.

ps Investor's secret friend might be a rocking horse in his attic. He certainly has the space!

JohnD

I would like to take you up on your kind offer and of course agree to the condition and return it on request.
Unfortunately your e-mail address seem to be missing from your profile but mine is Mtoto44@aol.com. Hope to hear from you soon.

Be Lucky

So

Why were Zimandra and Stray shot the only ones to back

Sorry, boozer, I've never even heard of them!

No, I don't think I misunderstood you, Mtoto. I think we all agree that there is a group, or maybe it's one person with many names, that do nothing but seek attention or cause trouble on racing message boards.

As for the other VDW place, I have no right to comment about it, as I decided a long time ago that it wasn't for me.

I find that BOTB is bearable once again, as the spoilers don't last long enough to dominate.

Anyway, enough of that. I trust you're still making it pay, which, after all, is the most important bit!

JD,
Im reliably informed on the other vdw forum that the flat form books 82 to 87 are required to study the Roushayd method.
Name a price, as id like those ones if you have them & are prepared to sell on.